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    Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha

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    • ?
      A Former User last edited by

      I was surfing the Internet and found this really neat site. Its by Yamaha called The Structure of the Trumpet and covers a lot of good stuff like what are the parts of a mouthpiece, how a scale is played, why C, G, and high C have the same fingerings, and slide use.
      Hope you find it a good read and useful
      Enjoy!
      https://www.yamaha.com/en/musical_instrument_guide/trumpet/mechanism/mechanism002.html

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      • Dr GO
        Dr GO last edited by

        This site looses credibility from it's first line:

        The trumpeter produces sound from the trumpet by buzzing his lips.

        This is just wrong. There are some of us that do not produce a sound from a buzz. Myself as an example and Tine Thing Helseth is another. I remain in good company, yes?

        Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
        Harrelson Summit 2017
        Kanstul 1526 2012
        Getzen Power Bore 1961
        Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
        Martin Committee 1946
        Olds Super Recording 1940
        Olds Recording (LA) 1953
        Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
        Olds Ambassador 1965

        ? 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Dr GO
          Dr GO last edited by

          The site says: "There are various different mouthpiece shapes-a mouthpiece with a deep cup will produce a mellower sound, while a mouthpiece with a shallower cup will produce a bright, piercing sound."

          Again, I disagree. A deep cup gives more vibratory potential for the lip as Dr. Mark demonstrated in another post by Adams, yes? Perhaps a more centered sound, but not necessary mellower. The trumpet takes care of most of that. From my 50 years+ of playing experience, I believe the throat of the mouth piece has more to do with the sound quality.

          Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
          Harrelson Summit 2017
          Kanstul 1526 2012
          Getzen Power Bore 1961
          Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
          Martin Committee 1946
          Olds Super Recording 1940
          Olds Recording (LA) 1953
          Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
          Olds Ambassador 1965

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          • Dr GO
            Dr GO last edited by

            The information as to the physics of the trumpet is a nice review.

            Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
            Harrelson Summit 2017
            Kanstul 1526 2012
            Getzen Power Bore 1961
            Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
            Martin Committee 1946
            Olds Super Recording 1940
            Olds Recording (LA) 1953
            Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
            Olds Ambassador 1965

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            • ?
              A Former User @Dr GO last edited by

              please go to 21:18 where Sarah talks to Tine about buzzing and how Tine can't free buzz but makes buzzing the mouthpiece part of her warm-up.

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              • Dr GO
                Dr GO last edited by Dr GO

                It's at 22:09 and she says"I can't buzz". And doesn't. When she plays the mouthpiece then pulls it away... she sounds the phwoooo... which is identical to the sound my embouchure produces. Really... Watch this closely once again. When she pulls away, there is no buzz. A sound can be made without buzzing and Tine and I make this same sound. Again, watch carefully and closely.

                Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
                Harrelson Summit 2017
                Kanstul 1526 2012
                Getzen Power Bore 1961
                Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
                Martin Committee 1946
                Olds Super Recording 1940
                Olds Recording (LA) 1953
                Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
                Olds Ambassador 1965

                ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • Kehaulani
                  Kehaulani Credentialed Professional last edited by Kehaulani

                  The sound has to come from someplace before it is amplified by the trumpet. And how is it possible to produce sound with one's lips kept apart?

                  Also, a buzz can take place inside the mouthpiece/horn and then lose it's formation when the contact with the mouthpiece is removed . . . unless we have a different concept on how to define buzz.

                  I thought this was resolved. When there is no sound, it can't be further amplified. No buzz no sound. The sound-source doesn't manifest itself out of the blue.

                  Benge 3X
                  Martin Committee
                  Getzen Capri Cornet
                  Adams F-1 Flugelhorn

                  "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
                  Charlie Parker

                  "Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
                  Chet Baker

                  ? Dr GO 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                  • ?
                    A Former User @Kehaulani last edited by A Former User

                    @Kehaulani said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

                    And how is it possible to produce sound with one's lips kept apart?


                    I have a problem free buzzing but when I place the mouthpiece to my lips, it causes them to buzz. Possibly due to resistance caused by the mouthpiece itself. Never the less, I like buzzing the mouthpiece to wake up the face.

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                    • Dr GO
                      Dr GO @Kehaulani last edited by Dr GO

                      @Kehaulani said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

                      ...When there is no sound, it can't be further amplified. No buzz no sound. The sound-source doesn't manifest itself out of the blue.

                      Kehaulani. All you need is vibration, whether it's the classic buzz or whether it's phwooooo. Try it. Produce phwooo and as you hold out the oooo... place the mouthpiece against your lips. You will get the same sound as Tine Thing. Then do the classic buzz, and you will also get a sound that is a bet harsher. Both techniques produce a vibration that moves air within the mouthpiece.

                      Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
                      Harrelson Summit 2017
                      Kanstul 1526 2012
                      Getzen Power Bore 1961
                      Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
                      Martin Committee 1946
                      Olds Super Recording 1940
                      Olds Recording (LA) 1953
                      Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
                      Olds Ambassador 1965

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                      • Dr GO
                        Dr GO @Kehaulani last edited by Dr GO

                        @Kehaulani said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

                        I thought this was resolved.

                        What's to resolve? There is no fight here. There is no "one way is better than another". All I have been trying to do in all of these threads that I bring up the phwoooo technique is to enlighten our readers that there is more than one way to put the vibration from the lips into the horn. Dr. Marc even posted a lecture (Dr. Marc posts amazing material) where an individual lights a torch to produce sound in a glass tube. Any energy form that moves the air inside a tube (in the case of the mouthpiece the cup and throat, will produce a vibration in the material in contact, which at the beginning of the process is the mouthpiece. There is nothing in need of resolution here, OK.

                        Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
                        Harrelson Summit 2017
                        Kanstul 1526 2012
                        Getzen Power Bore 1961
                        Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
                        Martin Committee 1946
                        Olds Super Recording 1940
                        Olds Recording (LA) 1953
                        Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
                        Olds Ambassador 1965

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                        • Kehaulani
                          Kehaulani Credentialed Professional last edited by

                          If you can just blow air into the mouthpiece and produce a sound without your lips touching, you have discovered something rare, indeed.

                          I have another question, too. Where are all the other forum members and potential members? Too theoretical and pedantic for them?

                          Benge 3X
                          Martin Committee
                          Getzen Capri Cornet
                          Adams F-1 Flugelhorn

                          "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
                          Charlie Parker

                          "Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
                          Chet Baker

                          Dr GO C ? flugelgirl 4 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • Dr GO
                            Dr GO @Kehaulani last edited by Dr GO

                            @Kehaulani said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

                            If you can just blow air into the mouthpiece and produce a sound without your lips touching, you have discovered something rare, indeed.

                            Lips are touching. Watch Tine Thing in the video, please watch the video. You will better understand.

                            Then try it. OK.

                            Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
                            Harrelson Summit 2017
                            Kanstul 1526 2012
                            Getzen Power Bore 1961
                            Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
                            Martin Committee 1946
                            Olds Super Recording 1940
                            Olds Recording (LA) 1953
                            Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
                            Olds Ambassador 1965

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                            • Kehaulani
                              Kehaulani Credentialed Professional last edited by Kehaulani

                              If her lips are touching then we seem to be talking about the same thing using different words. Regardless, I'm out of this one. "Hast la vista, baby." 😁

                              Benge 3X
                              Martin Committee
                              Getzen Capri Cornet
                              Adams F-1 Flugelhorn

                              "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
                              Charlie Parker

                              "Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
                              Chet Baker

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                              • administrator
                                administrator Global Moderator last edited by administrator

                                Free buzzing is a good way to get somebody quickly on the instrument, but I fear that it does more damage in the long run. Why? Beginners tend to make "farting" sounds, if you will, without any airstream backing them. Perhaps, this is part of the reason that beginning band concerts sound more like quacking ducks than anything else. "Buzzing" is not really how brass instruments work. The resonance of the instrument, along with a constant airstream passing through a properly formed embouchure creates a standing wave throughout the instrument. It doesn't even take all that much air (in terms of volume) to begin with.

                                I like to think of a "rushing river" of air passing through my lips and the instrument. The vibration should be almost automatic if things are correctly formed.

                                We need not be too critical of the article, however. We sometimes split hair over things that seem obvious to us, but not to the rest of the world. For example, I work as a software developer. Therefore, everybody assumes I know everything about computers and can fix their busted printer. Not so! I just write software. However, it's OK if somebody says I work in IT, even though I technically do not, because it may not seem so obvious to the outsider that IT and Software Engineering are two different curricula.

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                                • tjcombo
                                  tjcombo last edited by

                                  I could never buzz my lips without unnatural facial contortions, but have no problems making trumpet noises with a horn.

                                  This video from Greg Spence shows airflow straight from the chops, with a mouthpiece and then with mouthpiece and leadpipe. Not sure where the quote can from, but this seems to demonstrate that "you do not play the trumpet, the trumpet plays you". It also made me feel better and that lack of a "naked" buzz was no big deal 🙂

                                  Dr GO 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • N
                                    N1684T last edited by

                                    Reverse lead pipe. And its SILVER! He is a pro;) And correct.

                                    tjcombo 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • tjcombo
                                      tjcombo @N1684T last edited by

                                      @N1684T Doesn't have to be silver or even a lead-pipe. I attended a workshop run by Mr Spence where he'd asked everyone to bring their mouthpiece. He handed out large bubble-tea straws and all the attendees were able to replicate the demo.

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                                      • C
                                        Comeback @Kehaulani last edited by

                                        @Kehaulani said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

                                        I have another question, too. Where are all the other forum members and potential members? Too theoretical and pedantic for them?
                                        Good question, Kehaulani. Some of these recent threads seem to quickly become aggressively confrontational. I find them to be a hostile virtual environment.

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                                        • N
                                          N1684T last edited by

                                          Just trying to be funny. Why i added the "hes right"

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                                          • Dr GO
                                            Dr GO @tjcombo last edited by

                                            @tjcombo said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

                                            I could never buzz my lips without unnatural facial contortions, but have no problems making trumpet noises with a horn.

                                            This video from Greg Spence shows airflow straight from the chops, with a mouthpiece and then with mouthpiece and leadpipe. Not sure where the quote can from, but this seems to demonstrate that "you do not play the trumpet, the trumpet plays you". It also made me feel better and that lack of a "naked" buzz was no big deal 🙂

                                            THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. NO BUZZING. JUST PHWOOOOO. THIS IS EFFICIENCY. TRY IT EVERYONE. IT WILL CHANGE YOUR TRUMPET PLAYING LIFE!

                                            Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
                                            Harrelson Summit 2017
                                            Kanstul 1526 2012
                                            Getzen Power Bore 1961
                                            Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
                                            Martin Committee 1946
                                            Olds Super Recording 1940
                                            Olds Recording (LA) 1953
                                            Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
                                            Olds Ambassador 1965

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