Drill measures
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Hi mates, thanks for the add. I’m trumpet player and need your help, please.
Just for curiosity and not for my comercial purposes. So, there are any measures between the drills ? I know that it’s all about brands and his personal work but just checking out how they really work and how it’s this made.
Thank You All. link text
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzwmnm2m09lysti/IMG_1908.JPG?dl=0 -
@PortugaHorns : Bem vindo, Nuno.
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@PortugaHorns
I just blow through plumbing but you might want to contact acb, flugelgirl, or trumpetsplus. Those guys are really smart about the mechanics and construction of trumpets. -
Not sure what you are asking, but I am happy to help. Wiki lists the sizes of number and letter drills
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_bit_sizes -
I re-read your post on Facebook about the difference between Bach and Yamaha for the same drill and I believe it's a translation or nearest-number thing, as expressed in millimeters (I think it was for 27, between 3.658 and 3.66). I didn't look on different language version Yamaha sites, but it's possible there are differences.
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@Trumpetsplus thanks for replying. Wikipedia isn’t the real deal but it’s a start. My issue it’s understanding what’s going on with mouthpieces and his drills. I’ve made my one chart but don’t know if it’s correct (the inches drills).?
I know that this is all about industry and world standards measures works but I never found a place where I can check this out.My first point/question was: my one B2S3 (Monette Prana) have written 17... should be the drill (.173 inches”) ??? Jason Harrelson drills seams to me that they are bigger.... Like others custom works on some major brands, we can see too the professional players having drills 26, 24, 20..... without knowing exactly what’s the mesures (because all of them differ from brand to brand).
Second: if my personal custom mouthpieces Bb trumpet have 4,35mm., 4,50mm., 4,80mm. and 5mm. what should be the Drills ???Therefore, I made some study and work on my chart. #8 Drill = 5mm. Was seeing that there are bigger drills to Cornet and Flugel.... and that all this bigger measures have helped me a lot, I just love them.
Third and main point: the Drills haven’t sequential measures. Drill number are sequential but Drill measures not. This was my issue and haven’t sure why and/or what are the real measures.
Sorry for the long post and Thank You.
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@pss in fact, on my face post I made a trade. Bach are on 3,66mm & Yamaha on 3,65mm.
The thing it’s because there are some differences on #25 drill, some have .149” others .150” inches, all of this it’s about 3,80mm. but the measures differ. Bach haven’t the #23 Drill, why not ???
Other personal question was, what are the 28, 29, 30 drills played on Chase, Brisbois, Wayne Bergeron or Vizzutti, Jon Faddis and so on.Brands don’t want that we know and don’t tell all the information. This it’s a fact.
If the Drills are a global standardization, why not the Mouthpiece Drills ? Get me ?
Cheers and Thanks for all.
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@Dr-Mark thanks for replying. I wasn’t sure if my chart was correct. Thanks.
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@PortugaHorns said in Drill measures:
Drill number are sequential but Drill measures not.
I think drill measures (gauge) are sequential, but I'm not sure they are universal (trumpetplus should know at least for differences between Europe and US, he has been making trumpets and mouthpieces on both sides of the Atlantic). The 17 on the B2S3 seems to be the (quite large) standard on that model, and it should be 0.173 (= 4.394mm).
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Btw, Jason Harrelson seems to have different measures standards:
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@pss you can check the space between each drill and find out that they aren’t sequential. Numbers yes, but it’s measures not. The difference In mesure of each one aren’t equal, so, they aren’t sequencial. Millimeters or inches aren’t the problem. The real issue it’s the un-sequential mesures in mouthpieces rules, creating all this questions and differences in brands and approaches.
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Number drill sizes are based on an ANSI standard The gauge-to-diameter ratio is not defined by a formula, but is instead based on, but is not identical to, the Stubs Steel Wire Gauge, which originated in Britain during the 19th century.
Forget any third party printout, it is all based on that standard. No issues, just move on. The drill number in the ANSI standard is the size. Remember, drills do not always drill the same size, there is allowable tolerance.
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@pss said in Drill measures:
Btw, Jason Harrelson seems to have different measures standards:
Jason Harrelson seams to have different but in fact HE is right. If this foto is from him, he work on sequencial measures and drills. From 0,005” to 0,005” all over up and down on his drills, we can see it.
.130
.135
.145
.150
.......
and not the Industrial Global Drills;.128
.136
.140
.144
.147
.149
.152
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@Trumpetsplus precisely. That’s why I found the un-sequencial measures from one drill to another. It’s not a issue. Just want to know more and why. Cheers
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@PortugaHorns : Now I see it - and yes, Harrelson's 5MM makes more sense!
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Also be aware that the backbore is machined from the end of the shank with a specialty shaped form tool or reamer, and the cup is machined from the face of the mouthpiece, in the old days with a shaped form tool but now with a single point tool in a CNC lathe. Where these two cuts meet is the throat, which, in a perfect world will be a single point with a diameter of #27 or #26 or whatever the maker wants the throat to be. The world is not perfect so this throat area normally ends up being a short cylindrical section finished to size with an appropriate parallel reamer because the tendency will always be to finish the backbore portion and the cup portion slightly under size.
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@Trumpetsplus I know how it works and how they have/are been made. Many folks are “dreaming” on Drills or shallow/deeper Cups, backbores, but seams to me that this are all wrong. I think this matters it’s all about Balance All Parts. Drills are just the Vertex.
My experiments made me realize that isn’t just the hole / Drill that have importance, or Cup, or backbore, but the “shoulder” of Cup ends and backbore starts. Even the “Neck” = Length Throat are very, very crucial.
Thanks for sharing and replaying or thoughts. -
@pss said in Drill measures:
@PortugaHorns : Now I see it - and yes, Harrelson's 5MM makes more sense!
Now you get it. Thanks for the support. Cheers.
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@Trumpetsplus I play on my custom mouthpieces. You can see it on my personal table / chart. I love my 5mm. made a re-shape on cup and backbore to balance the drill. What a sound and easier airflow. Better lower range and highs, resonance at full capacity with awesome dynamics. I haven’t a clue that was #8 Drill. Now I’m better informed and still searching and trying new approaches.
