Posts made by Richard III

Another really good source for exercises is the series at the end of St. Jacome Trumpet Method. Lots of runs and intervals working through the entire range. I find them great for pretty much everything.

I only have one group in my area as it is very limited in size and players. Most in the community band do not practice. I worked my way up from third trumpet to first. Then I started to switch off between trumpet and french horn due to needs of individual songs. For over a year now, I have been just playing horn in the band. Our section is much more professional and really we don't even need practices. Not so the trumpet section. So I'm happier in this section.

I have a friend who has played trumpet, tuba and baritone in the band depending on need at the time. I think he is happiest when playing tuba by himself in the band.

So don't overlook other instruments.

In some cases it took many Ebay bargains to find really nice playing instruments. My favorite cornet and trumpet were made between 1937 and 1947. Can't exactly go to a local store and try those out. Each one was the second or third copy of that instrument I purchased, looking for a better example. And also so I have a backup in case the primary has an issue.

@Dr-Mark said in Tuning Tendencies:

@Richard-III said in Tuning Tendencies:

Totally agree with the behind the bell and the actual sound being different. I've recorded many a practice and performance and listened back. Some instruments have issues to work around and others are just about perfect, with no slide use. Listen to some old recordings before there were slides and recording technology to correct tuning and they managed to play in tune. So why not now?

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That's a great question but I'm not knowledged enough in antique trumpets to answer. I know little to nothing about old horns. However, there are people on this site that can field this question. We have serious brass technicians and trumpet builders that can answer your question. Possibly trumpetsplus or flugelgirl can help.

I guess everyone doesn't know about the longer first and third slides in older trumpets? Players were expected to listen and play in tune. The low D and C# were much closer. The D in the staff tended to be a little flat. Each horn had its tendencies, You learned them and played in tune. My newest trumpet was made in the early sixties. My favorites were made in the late thirties and early forties. They are quite easy to play and easy to play in tune.

@Dr-Mark said in Tuning Tendencies:

@Richard-III said in Tuning Tendencies:

I think all that blending stuff is pretty silly as playing in a correct style for the section and group is more important that which instrument you are using.

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Playing in a correct style? Style and intonation are two entirely separate creatures. If you can play all the notes (in tune) and not use slides, that great! But that's not the norm. The slides are there for a reason. Look how much less work it would be if the trumpet maker didn't need to make the 2nd and 3rd slides. Why make slides if they are not needed.
I would suggest that you take your two favorite old trumpets and record yourself playing Moon River. Next, send it to a couple of college professors you don't know and ask them if they'll listen to your intonation and lend some advice if necessary. What we hear when we play and what is actually coming out of the bell can be quite different. College professors will often lend a hand for something simple like this.

Totally agree with the behind the bell and the actual sound being different. I've recorded many a practice and performance and listened back. Some instruments have issues to work around and others are just about perfect, with no slide use. Listen to some old recordings before there were slides and recording technology to correct tuning and they managed to play in tune. So why not now?

@Kehaulani said in Tuning Tendencies:

You use a slide on C# and D? If I understand correctly, it's not that the player can bend notes down to that, artificially, but that the Committee is made so that one doesn't need to use the third-valve slide to compensate.

Back (an aside) to using a Committee in concert band, what mouthpiece are you using?

I only play old instruments. There are no usable slides and no rings or hooks or whatever. They are made to play in tune with the player used to playing them that way. Also, I think all that blending stuff is pretty silly as playing in a correct style for the section and group is more important that which instrument you are using. It is back to using those wonderful things on the sides of your head.

Here's the thing for me. TrumpetMaster discussions often devolved into silly humor. What started out as a serious discussion of technique or hardware would often become something I didn't care to read. That just seemed to be a characteristic of the site and the personalities involved. I can see that the site delivered to those people something they enjoyed. That carries over somewhat to TB.

TrumpetHerald rarely goes there. However, these days TH has also a very large contingent of younger players asking questions pertinent to their high school concerns.

The combination of both of the above situations means I spend very little time with either one due to a lack of relevance to my interests.

I've tried to describe to players I know how the tongue arch coordinates with the aperture, air, articulation points and general feeling of the oral resonant chamber. Trouble is, everyone's perceptions are so different and frankly, most people are quite unaware of what they are doing. Plus the style of music may also dictate the settings of the above factors. There are high note players that have everything happening in the first half inch of space behind the lips. There are other players with huge oral resonant chambers and need that for the style they play. And everything in between. I know what I do. But apparently that doesn't ring any bells when I try to help others.

@Dr-Mark

Bias and familiarity of different systems or lack of it. I have an affection for bottom sprung valves. I love the feel. They seem simpler. Easy to switch out the springs for different resistance. But they are not common with modern instruments. So many have never tried them. I have an old trumpet with short stroke, bottom sprung valves and the action is fantastic. Though the trumpet is 70+ years old, they are still in great shape.

Good read and a very good site for musicians:

[link text](https://www.musicianswell.com/stories/2019/4/16/michael-atkinson-overuse-and-the-pitfalls-of-going-it-alone[link text](link url))

@ButchA said in What about non-trumpet Brass players:

I am slowly doubling on "treble clef" Baritone, as I am succumbing to assorted lower dental problems, which is starting to affect my trumpet playing - especially in the upper register.

The bigger MP of the Baritone (and Trombone as well) are both incredibly different and (obviously) need a new approach to trumpet embouchure.

I have a friend that was gifted an Eb Tuba from around 1885. We took it to the repair store and they concluded they couldn't make it playable. While there we tried an old baritone. We also tried many tubas. Both of us were surprised that two trumpet players could easily play the baritone. My friend is still playing it. The baritone is very forgiving. Have fun with it. Baritones have a beautiful sound.

@Dr-Mark said in Embouchure Dystonia:

@Richard-III said in Embouchure Dystonia:

I think that anyone who can't make it past 45 minutes of playing has an issue.

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Hi Richard III,
I would think that what the person is playing and time behind the horn would factor in.
45 minutes of Paganini or Bach can reduce a person's lip to Jell-O if they are inexperienced or, they're just not use to the repertoire. If the person has no experience at a particular genre than the task at hand can become a real monster! When something becomes a monster, we often tighten up, begin to force the air, forget to take relaxed breaths, start using more mouthpiece pressure and the list goes on. Tension negatively affects endurance.

I think you are right on all points. I currently play in a section where at 60-90 minutes, the other players are starting to flap the lips to get feeling back. When I look around I see deep rings embedded in their lips. Sure signs that they are resorting to pressure to make it through the session. I always recommend the method that allowed me to not have that happen anymore, but I've never had anyone work on it. They just keep jamming the mouthpieces into their faces.

@tmd said in Embouchure Dystonia:

@Richard-III said in Embouchure Dystonia:

@GeorgeB said in Embouchure Dystonia:

Once I am playing again, I intend to take off the day following practice or tough gigs.

Okay, I'm going to say this again. If this is required, your approach to playing has something wrong with it. Please find a teacher who knows embouchure formation and go there. I've know many players who take lessons year after year and make slight improvements but the same faults continue. I think those teachers shouldn't be allowed to keep teaching. A teacher needs to to be able to say what the basic issue is that is holding you back.

Richard, maybe I've misunderstood you. Are you saying, that if someone has the right fundamentals, he/she can play infinitely and without consequences?

Many of us have had tough gigs, where because of the needs of the moment, we overdid things, and needed a recovery day. I don't thinks this is due to a lack of fundamentals. And I don't think it's the result of bad teachers.

Mike

I think that anyone who can't make it past 45 minutes of playing has an issue. And if they go past that and play for 90 minutes are having prolonged issues days later. I get the tough gig problem resulting in feeling tired the next day. But damaged sounding embouchure from what was described doesn't sound reasonable. Does it to you?

I play french horn, or "horn" all the time. I see people all the time that should be switching to other instruments. I have a trumpet playing friend who plays baritone much better than trumpet. I could go on, but imagine beating your head against the wall for years on one instrument and then you try another and all things come together. Do you stay playing mediocre with the original instrument or excellence with the new one?

@GeorgeB said in Embouchure Dystonia:

Once I am playing again, I intend to take off the day following practice or tough gigs.

Okay, I'm going to say this again. If this is required, your approach to playing has something wrong with it. Please find a teacher who knows embouchure formation and go there. I've know many players who take lessons year after year and make slight improvements but the same faults continue. I think those teachers shouldn't be allowed to keep teaching. A teacher needs to to be able to say what the basic issue is that is holding you back.

In addition to a possible medical checkup (which I don't think you need) it is time for a teacher who really understands embouchures. It sounds like your approach is wrong from the start. Playing more should make you tired but not damage you.

@flugelgirl Thanks. It worked. I put in a bid for one.

I went to the link and found tons of mouthpieces for sale. Unfortunately, I didn't feel like wading though tuba and other instrument mouthpieces trying to find the one I might be interested in. Is there a way to search for a specific instrument in that format? If so, I'm missing it. Thanks.

@BigDub

All the drummers I know wouldn't have any use for sheet music anyway. Why? None of them can read it. Of course the drummers I've used had another problem. They couldn't keep time. Seriously. After the last one, we just gave up having a drummer. Life is so much better. Same story with guitar players.

The tuba is the backbone of the band. A good player is worth his weight in gold.

If you are in NOLA, you gotta hit Frenchmen St. Once there, you will never want to leave. Don't miss The Spotted Cat. For the price of a drink, you can listen to so many great bands. Have fun.