Clean with 'alcohol'?



  • Opinions?

    I found a reference to ‘alcohol’ in a thread about covid:
    https://trumpetboards.com/topic/617/covid-19-closing-down-music-venues/47

    I thought a specific thread might be of interest.

    The term ‘alcohol’ is widely confused. In chemistry, alcohol is an organic compound that carries at least one hydroxyl functional group (−OH) bound to a saturated carbon atom. Thus, ‘alcohol’ includes all compounds for which the general formula is CnH2n+1OH. For laymen, ‘alcohol’ is the intoxicant in fermented beverages.

    For the discussion, the general public will be presented with two types of ‘alcohol’: Propanol C3H8O, which is the usual base for rubbing alcohol; and Ethanol C2H6O, which is the usual alcohol base in wines and spirits. Both act as solvents and disinfectants, are miscible in water, and are not corrosive to brass. So why the distinction?

    Toxicity. Propanol is more toxic than Ethanol. Additionally, rubbing alcohol will have poisonous additives to ‘denature’ the alcohol. Thus, as a disinfectant for instruments, Propanol should be rinsed away with water, preferably distilled and de-mineralised water.

    In the USA, the average consumer can avail her/himself to Propanol only, or 40% spirits, due to govt restrictions. Elsewhere, Ethanol is often available. I use 75% Ethanol, as this is proven to be the most effective against germs and spores (higher % evaporates too rapidly, lower % is useless).

    I prefer Ethanol, for a few reasons: not toxic; acts instantly against spores; is hygroscopic; very low cost. I pour about 5ml into the mouthpiece and blow it through the horn, daily at the end of each session. I then leave it in the horn to absorb water off the metal and act as a reservoir for disinfectant. Over-night, the alcohol will have evaporated significantly to a low concentration. Commencing each session, I blow the condensed liquid out of the horn via the water keys, then oil the valves. All is very safe to humans.

    In 40 years, my horn remains clean, zero odours, internally smooth, and zero rot.



  • I use Everclear. 95% Alcohol. I drink a big swig then play my horn. Kills everything in it.



  • @Kehaulani - I like your thinking!


  • Global Moderator

    @Kehaulani said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

    I use Everclear. 95% Alcohol. I drink a big swig then play my horn. Kills everything in it.

    Including brain cells.



  • @Kehaulani
    I like your thinking, too, Kehaulani, but medical advice suggests I avoid alcohol while taking blood thinners.
    Damn !!!!!



  • This actually has been studied in the medical literature. Ethanol does not eliminate difficult to remove organisms (virusus or those causing spores). For virus bleach does work but YOU DO NOT WANT TO GET BLEACH ON BRASS WITH SILVER PLATING. ONLY isolpropyl alcohol at 91% (Woods alcohol at 70% did not do as well) was shown to eliminate resistant organisms.



  • @grune said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

    Opinions?

    I found a reference to ‘alcohol’ in a thread about covid:
    https://trumpetboards.com/topic/617/covid-19-closing-down-music-venues/47

    Toxicity. Propanol is more toxic than Ethanol. Additionally, rubbing alcohol will have poisonous additives to ‘denature’ the alcohol. Thus, as a disinfectant for instruments, Propanol should be rinsed away with water, preferably distilled and de-mineralised water.

    Isopropyl alcohol is highly volatile so will not linger past several minutes, however a water rinse will clean away any residual.



  • @grune said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

    Opinions?

    I prefer Ethanol, for a few reasons: not toxic; acts instantly against spores; is hygroscopic; very low cost. I pour about 5ml into the mouthpiece and blow it through the horn, daily at the end of each session. I then leave it in the horn to absorb water off the metal and act as a reservoir for disinfectant. Over-night, the alcohol will have evaporated significantly to a low concentration. Commencing each session, I blow the condensed liquid out of the horn via the water keys, then oil the valves. All is very safe to humans.

    Once again, this has not been medically proven. A clean smell may result but cultures still grow spore related organisms and fungus (2010 September Issue of the journal, Chest)



  • @administrator said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

    @Kehaulani said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

    I use Everclear. 95% Alcohol. I drink a big swig then play my horn. Kills everything in it.

    Including brain cells.

    Relevant to Kehaulani and his recent posts, that goes without saying.



  • @Dr-GO
    Thanks for clarification and advice. I defer to your expertise and accept spores are resistant to ethanol. Regarding single cell organisms, I am told (by other medical authority) ethanol will kill many, such as:
    Pseudomonas aeruginosa
    Serratia marcescens
    E. coli
    Salmonella typhosa
    Staphylococcus aureus
    Streptococcus pyogenes.
    Would you concur?
    If true, then I think I shall continue to use ethanol to inter alia avoid contracting the above. I do give my horn a soap bath and rinse regularly, too.

    • best regards,


  • @Dr-GO said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

    @Kehaulani said in Clean with 'alcohol'? I use Everclear. 95% Alcohol. I drink a big swig then play my horn. Kills everything in it. "Including brain cells."

    Relevant to Kehaulani and his recent posts, that goes without saying.

    Am I going to have to tolerate cheap, off-topic sniping like calling me brain-dead, going forward? This is like a playground bully who just has to have the last word, even though it's not even called for.

    If we can't avoid finding opportunities to slip in cheap, crude shots, I may just reconsider my participation in this forum.



  • @Kehaulani said .

    If we can't avoid finding opportunities to slip in cheap shots, I may just reconsider my participation in this forum.

    Oh, man, I'd hate to see that, but I understand what you are saying and fully support it, and I would probably follow suit.
    C'mon, Doc...be nice.



  • @grune said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

    @Dr-GO
    Thanks for clarification and advice. I defer to your expertise and accept spores are resistant to ethanol. Regarding single cell organisms, I am told (by other medical authority) ethanol will kill many, such as:
    Pseudomonas aeruginosa
    Serratia marcescens
    E. coli
    Salmonella typhosa
    Staphylococcus aureus
    Streptococcus pyogenes.
    Would you concur?
    If true, then I think I shall continue to use ethanol to inter alia avoid contracting the above. I do give my horn a soap bath and rinse regularly, too.

    • best regards,

    True but these do not make spores. Those making spores are mycobacteria. It is the mycobacteria that cause more interstitial lung disease.



  • @Kehaulani said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

    @Dr-GO said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

    @Kehaulani said in Clean with 'alcohol'? I use Everclear. 95% Alcohol. I drink a big swig then play my horn. Kills everything in it. "Including brain cells."

    Relevant to Kehaulani and his recent posts, that goes without saying.

    Am I going to have to tolerate cheap, off-topic sniping like calling me brain-dead, going forward? This is like a playground bully who just has to have the last word, even though it's not even called for.

    If we can't avoid finding opportunities to slip in cheap, crude shots, I may just reconsider my participation in this forum.

    Listen to you own advise. You have been doing that to me routinely the past week. Read those posts that you haven't deleted, as many of your snipes have been deleted. The proof is evident all throughout you posts attacking me so, take you own advice and Please GET OVER IT so threads can move forward without your continued disruption. I hope your personal situation improves as you are going off the rails. OK.



  • @Dr-GO said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

    @Kehaulani said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

    @Dr-GO said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

    @Kehaulani said in Clean with 'alcohol'? I use Everclear. 95% Alcohol. I drink a big swig then play my horn. Kills everything in it. "Including brain cells."

    Relevant to Kehaulani and his recent posts, that goes without saying.

    Am I going to have to tolerate cheap, off-topic sniping like calling me brain-dead, going forward? This is like a playground bully who just has to have the last word, even though it's not even called for.

    If we can't avoid finding opportunities to slip in cheap, crude shots, I may just reconsider my participation in this forum.

    Listen to you own advise. You have been doing that too me routinely the past week. Read those posts that you haven't deleted, as many of your snipes have been deleted. The proof is evident all throughout you posts attacking me so, take you own advice and Please GET OVER IT so threads can move forward without your continued disruption. I hope you personal situation improves as you are going off the rails. OK.



  • @GeorgeB said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

    @Kehaulani said .

    If we can't avoid finding opportunities to slip in cheap shots, I may just reconsider my participation in this forum.

    Oh, man, I'd hate to see that, but I understand what you are saying and fully support it, and I would probably follow suit.
    C'mon, Doc...be nice.

    Check out all the snipes he deleted. I can be nice and have been. I am tying to call out anger before it continues to expand and continues to derail discussion as that is what I am observing in Kehaulani's continued snipes on the majority of my posts over the past week.



  • What about that spray made to disinfect mouthpieces? Label says 70% propanol, plus water and flavoring. Is it harmful? Effective?



  • @Dale-Proctor
    Hooray...we're back on track. Good question, Dale .

    Now, I've had enough of this war zone. It's time to go play some music...what the world needs now is appropriate at the moment.



  • @Dale-Proctor said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

    What about that spray made to disinfect mouthpieces? Label says 70% propanol, plus water and flavoring. Is it harmful? Effective?

    Once again, it will work on most organisms as noted by grune. And for mouthpieces, you really don't have to worry as much regarding maintaining the moist, warm environment that is trapped in the tubing the spore creating organisms of a closed horn system. So it should be fine to use, but I would recommend a rinse with plenty of water if using immediately after spraying. If you let the spray dry, it will be fine.



  • @Dr-GO said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:
    Check out all the snipes he deleted.

    What I deleted were not "snipes", they were comments supporting what I previously said, but I deleted them just to lower the temperature. Evidently, it doesn't matter.

    I'm not going to let this deteriorate into a "he said, she said" bickering. I have nothing else to say. Just leave me alone and I will be more than happy to do the same.


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