Unable to simply hear that I'm out of pitch
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After sitting the trumpet down for 40 years, I find myself struggling with finding the pitch on various notes. I don't have perfect pitch, but I don't ever remember struggling with this in the Marine Corps. I have a tuner and microphone attached to my bell so I can keep an eye on pitch now. I'm wondering if it's a symptom of possibly the following:
- Ear has simply become untrained to hear the correct pitch
- Hearing is not as good as it used to be.
- Not playing enough with others. When I'm playing with others (who can themselves be in tune), then I can tune myself with others.
- combination of the above or something else...
Anybody with teaching experience comment on probable causes?
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Hard to advise without more detail and being there to watch and hear.
The most important question is: How long has it been since you have been back on the trumpet? It takes weeks (on average 6 weeks) to tone muscle to the point of getting a consistent response. Time playing may be a relevant issue.
Once the basic embouchure development is well underway, than yes, playing with others and listening and then hearing the changes you need to make would be of high value.
Is the trumpet in need of repair? Have you had other experienced trumpet players play your trumpet and if so, is the intonation fine when others play? If so, we can likely exclude instrument contribution out of the discussion.
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We have several concepts for pitch. They all need a certain degree of familiarity before we can be "successful".
Playing alone with or without a tuning device is dangerous as we do not play "well tempered". The tuning device is to get our concert Bb "in the ball park". If we play to all the other notes, they will never sound right.
Our performing pitch is always relevant to something else - it can be the last memory, or it can be another instrument or recording.
In addition, if we are playing with serious upper body tension, the pitch will sound sharp even although a tuning device would measure just fine. If we do not have enough tension, the sound is dull and it sounds flat although it may measure OK.
If you are not taking regular lessons, then just play along with recorded music. That can be a a CD with concert band music or marches. It can be church hymns or jazz standards. The important part is that you rediscover having your pitch relative to things around you (accompaniment) as well as playing enough to get a good resonant sound throughout the registers that CAN sound in tune.
Your actual problem is the ear/brain not talking to the body/lungs/embouchure, or the body/lungs/embouchure not reacting predictably to the signals coming from the brain. If you had these skills at one time in your life, then a lot of the work is already done. Simply play enough and those skills will move to the short term memory and become more automatic.
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@Dr-GO said in Unable to simply hear that I'm out of pitch:
Hard to advise without more detail and being there to watch and hear.
The most important question is: How long has it been since you have been back on the trumpet? It takes weeks (on average 6 weeks) to tone muscle to the point of getting a consistent response. Time playing may be a relevant issue.
--> It's been about a year now redeveloping the embouchure. I've taken lessons with a trumpet player locally. I've also taken lessions with Ethan Chilton on Tonebase.Once the basic embouchure development is well underway, than yes, playing with others and listening and then hearing the changes you need to make would be of high value.
--> I agree. This is what I've been thinking may be the main problem. 40 years ago, I played 1,000's of hours with others. One year we had 426 gigs logged with performances 7 days a week. Then of course practicing for hours together every weekday. The ear just may need to be retrained.Is the trumpet in need of repair? Have you had other experienced trumpet players play your trumpet and if so, is the intonation fine when others play? If so, we can likely exclude instrument contribution out of the discussion.
--> Trumpets and Flugel are all brand new. No problems there. I am educating myself on technical design of the mouthpeices and instruments. Being an I.T. professional for the last 30 years, I think of the entire "noise" organism as made of up 3 primary systems: Human, Mouthpiece, and Instrument. Each of these systems can be broken down into subsystems. For instance, the mouthpiece can be affected by diameter, rim/cup shape, material, throat, taper, length, mass, etc. I've got a micrometer, throat, and Warburton gap measuring tools. I'm taking a look at how much gap I have playing on a specific trumpet with different mouthpieces and how it affects slotting and tuning. So it's a work in progress. -
Tuning to the tuner is an impossible task when playing in a group, even when they are equal tempered. In most cases the notes move faster than the tuner can track in a group. The tuner works best when providing the tuning note or playing long tones during practice to identify our tendencies.
Without the tuner, who do we tune to?
It depends. When playing the first part, we tune to the other principals. When playing in a section, we tune to the principal player — it is our job to make them sound good.
Sometimes it's impossible to tune to a group that is badly out of tune. In that case, tune to your section leader, make them sound good, and rest content.
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You are getting good advice here. I myself am an older player (80) but I haven't put the horn down for long periods of time. I would say the following: 1) your chops need to be in good shape to maintain a pitch properly. Getting back in shape takes time after such a long layoff 2) Use an electronic tuner (a phone app is good) and practice playing into it so you can hear when you're off. There are small devices that you attach to the bell of the horn to check on your intonation while you're playing with a group. Feedback helps.
