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    The difference in timbre caused by using additional valves

    Bb & C Trumpets
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    • T
      Trumpetsplus Qualified Repair Techs Credentialed Professional @ROWUK last edited by

      @rowuk I will be around 5-15 August and would love to see you. My Gutenstein dates are the week of the 21st.

      Ivan Hunter
      Player, Designer, Builder, Writer, Teacher, Repairer
      Jaeger Trumpets
      Convener of Trumpet4Fun Trumpet Saturdays

      T Vulgano Brother 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • T
        Trumpetsplus Qualified Repair Techs Credentialed Professional @Trumpetsplus last edited by

        @trumpetsplus In reply to the OP. Yes there is a timbre difference using valves; this helps me, when listening to recordings, identify what notes are being played - i.e. is it an A on a Bb trumpet or a G on a C trumpet.

        About C trumpet intonation (mentioned earlier in this thread), pushing my barrow slightly, when I build a C trumpet I have slightly different length proportions before and after the valve block, plus some additional in-house decisions on the lead pipe. Jeff Christiana, when he was the big honcho for Bach trumpets was astounded at the playability and intonation of my C trumpets.

        Ivan Hunter
        Player, Designer, Builder, Writer, Teacher, Repairer
        Jaeger Trumpets
        Convener of Trumpet4Fun Trumpet Saturdays

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        • Vulgano Brother
          Vulgano Brother @Trumpetsplus last edited by

          We can hear the timbre changes if we cup one ear and play a scale.

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          • Dr GO
            Dr GO @Vulgano Brother last edited by

            @vulgano-brother said in The difference in timbre caused by using additional valves:

            We can hear the timbre changes if we cup one ear and play a scale.

            That is internal feedback but I am sure others hear it differently. I also get this effect when I have sinus congestion, which in Ohio is a lot of the time.

            Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
            Harrelson Summit 2017
            Kanstul 1526 2012
            Getzen Power Bore 1961
            Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
            Martin Committee 1946
            Olds Super Recording 1940
            Olds Recording (LA) 1953
            Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
            Olds Ambassador 1965

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              Jolter @J. Jericho last edited by Jolter

              @j-jericho said in The difference in timbre caused by using additional valves:

              I hear timbre and intonation changes with different valve combinations, but the timbre changes aren't enough to sound like a different horn. I just write the phenomenon off to "nature of the beast".

              This matches my experience.

              The clearest example might be between F# in first space of the system. Easy enough to alternate between a 2 and a "123+trigger" and get the same note at the same pitch. In this experirement I hear a clear timbre difference. That said, I would not really consider using 123 for making music.

              So, add my vote to "yes I can hear it but does it matter".

              As for why it happens, Rowuk's summary really says it all -- I'd only add that bit about the number of sharp turns that you mentioned yourself, @Trumpetb:

              The change in timbre is based on the cylindrical to tapered proportions as well as the specific partial being played.
              Many modern piston trumpets have been homogenised for a generally even tone.

              When it comes to cornets, I believe there are differences that affect the timbre more than the number of sharp/smooth turns. Notably the length of the leadpipe taper, before going into the cylindrical valve block, as well as the ratio between the narrowest diameter of the mouthpiece and the bell radius.

              Yamaha YTR-8335G
              Monke Bb trumpet
              Carol Brass flugelhorn
              YTR-6810 piccolo
              Burbank Eb/D
              Various antique cornets & horns in various keys

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