No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.

gwood66

This

@lukarino said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

Resting as much as you play (and in short sections).

and this X10

@Vulgano-Brother said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

Many low impact repetitions help grow our endurance. Clarke Studies are our friend.

You must rest as much as you play with the mouthpiece off the lips to avoid fatigue and bad habits that come from playing when tired. Claude Gordon said, “If you rest properly you can play all day.”

Three Sevens

@Dr-GO
That's a NICE Jeep! Hard to be incognito in that great color!

Mine started life as Standard yellow 20 years ago and begged for a change after that color became ubiquitous around here a few years later. The custom Cobalt Blue paint is not a Jeep color and gets lots of attention everyday even though the new paint is 14 years old! The top has been down for 10 years with just a bikini overhead. It is garage kept year round except on the clear weather days, keeping the mileage relatively low for an older version.

Just remember that JEEP stands for Just Empty Every Pocket like many thing for the easily charmed (Warning! don't shop aftermarket personalization).

Hope you take yours out topless often!

Mike

Dr GO

@Three-Sevens said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

@Dr-GO
That's a NICE Jeep! Hard to be incognito in that great color!

Hope you take yours out topless often!

Mike

Mike, it's a beautiful day in May and here I am Topless:

Kehaulani

Good grief, here we go again.

OP, I didn't see it above and I might have just missed it, but make sure you're not using too much pressure. That will kill endurance quicker than anything.

N1684T

I see this all the time, but a definition of too much pressure would be helpful?

Dr GO

@N1684T said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

I see this all the time, but a definition of too much pressure would be helpful?

Too much pressure in this context with the embouchure relates to actual physical pressure of the metal mouthpiece compressing lip muscle. This does two things:

Pinches off blood supply to many muscle unites causing lactic acid build up and chemical anaerobic induced fatigue;
Pins the lip muscle directly against the dentition which decreases it's ability to vibrate. The more vibrating that is in contact with the mouthpiece cup, the more effective the wave form created transmits to the air column within the mouthpiece and subsequently the wave that is transmitted down the leadpipe and into the horn.

N1684T

But whats a good test of what IS too much pressure? I read one about palming the trumpet, and another about turning the trumpet all the way around while playing a constant note. I have been guilty of using WAY too much pressure when tired, and actually leaving an impression on the lips, but aside from that, whats a good test? I realize this sounds like a silly question, but if i need clarification, others might as well?

Dr GO

@N1684T said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

But whats a good test of what IS too much pressure?

Loss of control. Accuracy of hitting notes falters, tone begins to pinch.

administrator

Pressure is rarely an issue in and of itself. It's more often than not a symptom of the underlying issue. Therefore, it's hard to say what is "too much" pressure and what is not. However, if you feel any pain at all, you are probably hurting yourself. No pain no gain does not apply to trumpet playing!

Dr GO

@N1684T said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

But whats a good test of what IS too much pressure?
Endurance. How long are you lasting before you loose fine control of attacking your notes or starting to diminish your tonal quality?

@N1684T said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

I read one about palming the trumpet, and another about turning the trumpet all the way around while playing a constant note.
Don't do this. This is a high risk procedure to damaging lip muscle.

@N1684T said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

I have been guilty of using WAY too much pressure when tired... whats a good test?
Your answer is in your question. You feel "tired". This is a sign that is before pain sets it. Being tired is a sing to either cut back considerably or quit for the day (or at least for several hours)

@N1684T said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

...and actually leaving an impression on the lips...

Leaving an impression on you lips (acutely-which is results in plethora (reddened)) is and advanced sign of muscle blood flow into the area to begin "healing" a stress environment. Now a chronic ring that is silver is a sign of healthy adaptation of the soft tissue and collagen that helps protect your lips.

Collagen is the most available protein in your muscles and ligaments. Collagen is a building block that: 1) promotes skin elasticity; 2) holds together your bones and muscles: 3) protects muscle for excessive strain; 4) provides structure to joints and tendons. Your body produces collagen on a regular basis and will particularly lay down fibers in more areas needing protection (such as that silvery ring around you lip).

@N1684T said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

I realize this sounds like a silly question, but if i need clarification, others might as well?
Not silly at all. I hope the above segments help clarify.

Dr GO

@administrator said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

...it's hard to say what is "too much" pressure and what is not. However, if you feel any pain at all, you are probably hurting yourself....

AGREED:
I always tell my patients, pain is your friend. Listen to pain. It is mother nature's way of letting you know you are overdoing what your body was designed to do. If you ignore pain, you are at a higher risk of doing damage.

Dr GO

@administrator said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

No pain no gain does not apply to trumpet playing!

ALSO AGREED:
However, there is another saying, and that relates to what does it mean to "work through the pain"? THAT depends on the situation and the task at hand (as many of the physical therapists out there will know).

When it comes to lip pain from excessive playing, here is what you do:

STOP playing
Begin lip massage in the area of pain for a couple minutes or so. This increases blood flow to the area to help move out the "bad toxins", and help prevent further damage.
Come back to re-do the massage every 5 minutes until the pain has subsided.

IF you do this early enough into the pain process AND the pain resolves (typically 10-15 minutes), you can try to play once again, but if that pain returns, you are done for the day... OK?

N1684T

Good information, it is appreciated. Sometimes when i have inadvertently over did it, i do some pedal tones which seem to get the lips feeling better, as a warm down. Lips flapping a lot is similar to massage, no?

administrator

Physical pain never leads to good things as a trumpet player. It is not an athletic activity. When I go cycling, I expect to feel pain in my legs and I expect my cardio system to pick up significantly. If I feel no pain it means I'm not working hard enough!

This never applies to brass playing. Pain means you're done practicing!

Dr GO

@administrator said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

When I go cycling, I expect to feel pain in my legs and I expect my cardio system to pick up significantly...

Nah... You don't feel pain as It's your endorphins kicking in.!

AND if you look at the stress per muscle bundle, cycling (weight lifting) uses HUGE groups of muscles so the strain and relief is distributed over many helping muscle groups.

Actually, there is nothing wrong with that if you do a good stretch exercise before and after the cycling activity.

The lips just don't have this same assistance level of coordinated help.
AND you are placing an un-natural strain on the lips by pressing a hard metal object against these muscle groups.

THAT is a BIG difference. Try riding your bike that with each pump cycle while metal bar compress the calf muscles. You would be heading to the local ER in extreme pain with rhabdomyolysis related renal failure.

N1684T

REALLY big words;) Impressive! lol!

administrator

@Dr-GO

Would you say that the paragon of performance was when the flow of norepinephrine through the capillaries of Maynard Ferguson was at its apex? Surely his sympathetic nervous system would concur.

Tobylou8

@administrator said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

@Dr-GO

Would you say that the paragon of performance was when the flow of norepinephrine through the capillaries of Maynard Ferguson was at its apex? Surely his sympathetic nervous system would concur.

Indubitably!

N1684T

Adequate, as always my fair laad. Most impresive;) All kidding doc;)

Dr GO

@administrator said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

@Dr-GO

Would you say that the paragon of performance was when the flow of norepinephrine through the capillaries of Maynard Ferguson was at its apex? Surely his sympathetic nervous system would concur.

I would say with Maynard's command of the upper range, his muscarinic receptors were most in tone and most active with a huge reservoir of acetylcholine drive.