residue in valve ports
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I wasn't sure where to post this, so I'll try here.
A trumpet buddy of mine asked me a question I couldn't answer. He uses a petroleum based valve oil and he discovered some grey residue in one of the 2nd valve ports. The rest looked fine. He asked what this is and how can he avoid it. I don't use a petrol-based valve oil and never have seen that with synthetic lubricants. Can anyone here answer my friend's question ?
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You know, I used to get this as well, but I remember something Rowuk recommend on TM and this works well. Before each oiling after I remove the valves, I use a paper towel and wipe clean the valve, even tuck a bit inside the bore if I see any hint of deposit. I do the wipe even if I see no sing of residue. After doing this, my valves have stayed amazing debris free, which never use to happen between my typical three month cleaning.
Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
Harrelson Summit 2017
Kanstul 1526 2012
Getzen Power Bore 1961
Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
Martin Committee 1946
Olds Super Recording 1940
Olds Recording (LA) 1953
Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
Olds Ambassador 1965 -
I would also venture a guess that he doesn't empty the 2nd valve when he plays. 99.9% don't. I mention that since the grey was only there.
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@Tobylou8 said in residue in valve ports:
I would also venture a guess that he doesn't empty the 2nd valve when he plays. 99.9% don't. I mention that since the grey was only there.
What do you mean by "empty"?
Remove the bottom cap and drain it?
I usually remove all my bottom valve caps and shake the water off. My Getzen seems to accumulate a lot of moisture/condensation.GETZEN Eterna 900, S.E. Shires C Trumpet, Custom Shires 3c MP, Shires 1 1/2 C MP
Assorted other mp's not used
( not very unusual….right? ) -
It probably has nothing to do with the kind of oil.
IMHO, it's the result of valve wear, surely more visible for new horns - the paper towel trick as mentioned by Dr GO is a must for the first few months (also inside the bottom caps). After that it depends on the horn, personal habits (e.g., valve block inclination), amount of playing, etc. but I would say there is no reason for alarm, but surely a reason for cleaning. -
Could it also be too much slide grease?
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I also wipe my valves and casings with a lint free paper towel or cloth before I oil them (read it on TM as well) and I agree it keeps the valves debris free. Well worth the effort.
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@BigDub said in residue in valve ports:
@Tobylou8 said in residue in valve ports:
I would also venture a guess that he doesn't empty the 2nd valve when he plays. 99.9% don't. I mention that since the grey was only there.
What do you mean by "empty"?
Remove the bottom cap and drain it?
I usually remove all my bottom valve caps and shake the water off. My Getzen seems to accumulate a lot of moisture/condensation.Pull the whole slide out like the Frenchies AND as Bach makes you do for the 3rd slide on their Strads.
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@Tobylou8 said in residue in valve ports:
Pull the whole slide out like the Frenchies AND as Bach makes you do for the 3rd slide on their Strads.
Pulling the 2/v slide and depressing the 3 and 2 valves is also a good way to "de-water" a Schilke.
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I wonder if it has something to do with valve oil reacting with tuning slide grease given that on the 2/v, the greased portion of the slide is in closer proximity to the valve and may be more likely "mix" with the valve oil ?
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I actually cut the brush and about 2 inches of plastic off of a bore brush. I put a bit of Simichrome or MAAS or other mild abrasive like toothpaste and put in on the brush. I then put it into the chuck of a low speed drill and run it CAREFULLY through the ports. Thoroughly wash the valve. The ports actually get shiny
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...and what about piccolos and D/Eb horns where the #2 slide is fixed? I use one of these bladder things intended for flushing pipes to flush my horns. Make sure all of the slides are tight or tied in place, go out on the back deck, hook it up to the garden hose, stick it in the bell, and give the horn a good flush. Press the valves, and you flush all of the slides and valve ports. Before flushing, I usually use the snake brush on the lead pipe and main slide, and a 28 gauge shotgun swab on the valve casings. Then a good thorough flush of the whole horn is the last step before lubricating. Of course, I live in the Peoples Republic of California where I can do this outdoors on the back deck all year round...
Bb: Bach 180S37G (05), Mercedes (80)
Vintage: Committee (54), Recording (59), Super (49), Getzen Severinsen (66)
C: Kanstul 1510, Constellation
D/Eb: Getzen Eterna
Cornet: Schilke XA1, Yamaha Neo Eb
Flugel: Kanstul 1525, Yamaha 625
Conch shell in F -
Lots of interesting stuff here. Thanks for the replies.
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@Newell-Post said in residue in valve ports:
...and what about piccolos and D/Eb horns where the #2 slide is fixed? I use one of these bladder things intended for flushing pipes to flush my horns. Make sure all of the slides are tight or tied in place, go out on the back deck, hook it up to the garden hose, stick it in the bell, and give the horn a good flush. Press the valves, and you flush all of the slides and valve ports. Before flushing, I usually use the snake brush on the lead pipe and main slide, and a 28 gauge shotgun swab on the valve casings. Then a good thorough flush of the whole horn is the last step before lubricating. Of course, I live in the Peoples Republic of California where I can do this outdoors on the back deck all year round...
YIKES!!!!! I know that works but the metal tip would make me think twice. I use this, AND you're correct about making sure the slides are secure. I've heard things, terrible things, things too terrible to mention.
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Here's my solution. Parts consist of turkey baster tube, section of Polaris pool cleaner hose, plastic garden hose male coupler, brass coupler (the only part I had to buy, the rest was already on hand) and existing connection to a shower fixture attachment. The taper on the baster allows it to fit snugly in the mouthpipe of trumpets/cornets/flugel and my baritone. Since it's connected to the bathtub shower, I can power wash using hot water. I use it in between normal cleanings and also as the final step in a normal cleaning to get rid of loose stuff and ensure the Dawn is all gone.
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@Tobylou8 Thanks. I actually wrap the brass tip of the bladder thing in electrical tape, just in case it comes into contact with the bell. Although the way the bladder swells up under water pressure, it has never been a problem. Some of the bladder things they sell don't have the brass tip. The picture is from a web advertisement, not the actual one it use. And, oh yeah, get a new clean one from the hardware store! Finally, I don't turn the water on at full pressure. About half pressure seems right.
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These guys have been visiting you at night and playing your horn:
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For those of us who don't like to scrub out horns on a regular basis, one good scrub, followed by Herco Spitballs once a week will keep the nasties out, especially when combined with good oral hygiene. The only horns I have to scrub are the newly acquired ones. Once done, I inspect the insides periodically to find them clean every time.
