Mouthpiece too large?
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@Kehaulani said in Mouthpiece too large?:
@GeorgeB said in Mouthpiece too large?:
That is one gorgeous horn, Doc.I think it's gaudy bling. Goes to show you how differing tastes can be.
There was a Filipino family that lived a few houses down from me that re-painted their house. Purple. Looked beautiful to them.
I think you do not understand Harrelsons. Have you ever played one? The bell and tuning slide may appear gaudy to the uninformed but they are cast components, unlike the traditional bend at both crooks. The bend dissipates energy, the cast transmits energy. Play one before you criticize. You will discover this is not bling.
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@Kehaulani said in Mouthpiece too large?:
There was a Filipino family that lived a few houses down from me that re-painted their house. Purple. Looked beautiful to them.
No application here. Please Kehaulani, your ignorance is being communicated to this site.
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@Kehaulani said in Mouthpiece too large?:
@Vulgano-Brother said in Mouthpiece too large?:
People will pay you that much not to play? Guess I should have become a jazz musician!He's a doctor who plays jazz.
Cut the guilt shit Kehaulani. I am a jazz musician that was a University Professor prior to retiring this year. I then took a position for the first time in my career exclusively as a physician this past year. While working as a part time physician at the University, I made more income as a jazz musician for most of the years I filed IRS statements than I did as a physician. Your ignorance is once again being broadcast on this site. Please stop.
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There's no need to take this personally. I was observing how it was a matter of personal taste and, frankly, marveling that we could have varying tastes and, yet, still have respect for one another. I thought that was pretty cool.
Regarding the horn, specifically, the bends and curves may have an acoustical reasoning but there are other shapes that work equally well. But it's still a matter of personal taste whether or not someone finds it attractive.
That horn doesn't have some kind of superior engineering to it over many other horns. If it did, we could make a long list of key players throughout the world who play them. But we can't. It's just one of a number of great horns that someone might enjoy owning.
Look. I'm not saying it's a bad horn or that it was selected just for its appearance.
I just think it's neat that we can find a difference in some tastes and, yet, find common interest in others.Regarding the purple house, it wasn't illogical. It's just a continuation of the same theme. It's the recognition that people can be proud of things regardless of other's tastes.
The doctor who plays jazz comment wasn't made condescendingly, it was just meant as a compliment to your achievements.
Regarding your current income, I would suggest that it's based not on your present work as a doctor, alone, vs. musician, rather of your retirement income as a University Professor+ present medical work, vs. musical jobs. Or am I wrong here. Have you no university/medical retirement income?
Having said all that, I don't appreciate your calling me ignorant and using foul language. Frankly, I wouldn't do that to other members of the forum and am surprised that you would lower yourself to that. This reaction is way out of proportion to what was said. I don't think I would get an apology but at least I hope we can put this to rest.
Benge 3X
Martin Committee
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flugelhorn"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
Charlie Parker"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker -
@Kehaulani
I can admire gaudy, but that doesn't mean I would want to own it. Doc is a brash kinda guy so I feel this horn suits him...LOL !1960s King Super 20 Silversonic, 1940 Olds Recording, 1942 Buescher True Tone 400 ,1999 Conn Vintage One Bb trumpet, A 1952 Selmer Paris, A 2020 Getzen 400 and a Manchester Brass ACB custom pro Bb trumpet, a 1962 Conn Victor 5A Cornet.
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I think a big mouthpiece is just part of the equation for the desired outcome.
The biggest MP I use is a Wick 4. I can play it just as well as any other MP but it’s the only one that will produce the desired effect on my cornet -
@djeffers78 said in Mouthpiece too large?:
I think a big mouthpiece is just part of the equation for the desired outcome.
The biggest MP I use is a Wick 4. I can play it just as well as any other MP but it’s the only one that will produce the desired effect on my cornetThis is the most important truth. I do believe this truth relates to experience level however. In my early days, learning on a 10 1/2C Bach mouthpiece as a beginner (not my choice but my teachers' choices throughout grade school and high school) "forced" an intolerance of larger cups, and to me at that time in my life a 5C was huge! Today, as a professional, I have learned I can play and learned even more I love to play in a 3C. That 3C allows me flexibility and freedom to embellish air puffs from the embouchure that helps texture the sound wave I can but into the horn. It takes more work for me to control, but the end result is worth it.
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@Kehaulani said in Mouthpiece too large?:
There's no need to take this personally.
I don't take anything you posted personally. I have enough self esteem to keep my thoughts on track without feeling I was lobed a personal vendetta. The person taking it personal is the person writing the above quote. I simply stated you were ignorant on the concept of the Harrelson Horn. That is not a personal attack. Calling you stupid (which you are not) would be a personal attack.
Kehaulani you never answered my question... Have you ever played a Harrelson? If the answer is no, than you are ignorant, or maybe you will hear me if I soften it to - you have a knowledge gap, as to what Harrelson's SWE technology brings to the design of his casting methods over traditionally bending trumpet tubing.
So I am assigning you a task: Please read up on SWE technology, report back to us on what you find and then and only then can you state your doubts without ignorance (knowledge gap) as your defense.
Now stop debating things you have no knowledge to debate and post something relevant to the thread on mouthpiece size being too large, as you are taking this thread way off track. Please?
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@GeorgeB said in Mouthpiece too large?:
@Kehaulani
...Doc is a brash kinda guy so I feel this horn suits him...LOL !In my youth, my mother would always tell me I was full of piss and vinegar, but brash works as well.
The only problem is, I am now an old man with prostate issues for which I am taking apple cider vinegar three times a day to help relieve, so how my ignorance of my past youth, and my mother's predilection, has come back to haunt me at this time.
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@ Dr GO - I'm not going to prolong this subject, rather move along to new ones.
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@grune said in Mouthpiece too large?:
re locked sticky; Jens & Mouthpieces Sticky (Your MPC is TOO BIG!)
...a 3C can give a well-balanced result for tone, range, flexibility. But a 3C will not give the same tone as a 1.5C: if it does, the issue is the player. In my case, a 1.5C definitely gives a bigger, fuller, sweeter, greater dynamics than a 3C. With a 1.5C, I have no trouble to fill a concert hall with a 'teutonic' sound. I think pros should strive for 'the sound', and this means working hard to develop the chops needed to perform on a mouthpiece larger than a 3C. imho, the 1.5C is the pro standard to achieve, with larger being a matter of individual strength.opinions?
I detailed more specifics above, I believe there is much truth in your statement. As I noted above I graduated from a 10.5 C to a 3C and to most degree, experienced the same performance results you achieved. Have not made it to the 1.5C yet, but I have made proportionally some rater aggressive leaps and bonds with some amazing success as well.
Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
Harrelson Summit 2017
Kanstul 1526 2012
Getzen Power Bore 1961
Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
Martin Committee 1946
Olds Super Recording 1940
Olds Recording (LA) 1953
Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
Olds Ambassador 1965 -
@Dr-GO
please allow me...If you are happy with the comfort and sound attained with a Bach 3C, seemingly you have no reason to change. The 3C is a great all-rounder: which Jens advocates, to which I concur.
Though I advocate the focus should be sound, in practicality, the relationship of m/p size to player reaches a compromise rather quickly. I am fortunate to have the physiognomy for a larger m/p: but not for every larger m/p. I found a '2C' of unknown manufacturer, of high quality, which is larger in all respects to the Bach 1.5C. The 2C gives a HUGE, fantastic sound: it's like a 1.5C on steroids, and makes my horn sound like a completely different horn. The Aida march sounds magnificent with this 2C. But to play on this 2C for more than 30 minutes is simply impossible: it is HUGELY demanding for lung capacity and embouchure strength. So, I have reached my limit, and my compromise is a 1.5C for the sound I wish to attain. I suspect my story is consistent with the norm, for I find many orchestra trumpeters using a 1.5C.
People think Mr Bach invented his numbering as a coherent, graded series. This is not so. imho His numbering reflects his series of experiments. Inter-series, I have never found gradation. Intra-series, yes, I note some gradation. I have read some research indicating Bach intended to match cups B, C, D, E to the key of the horn: thus a B-cup m/p was intended for a Bb horn, a C intended for a C horn, etc. This may indeed be true, as any B cup does sound bigger and better on my Bb horn, than does a C cup. The C cup did sound and perform best with the C horn I had. If this is a valid basis, perhaps you may wish to experiment with 3B as your next step to a bigger sound. Based on my experience, the 3B will reduce range initially, but should not require significantly greater lung and chops strength for endurance, and should give you a bigger sound overall with less edge than a 3C.
Others may have opposing views, and are respected.
Bach Stradivarius Model 37 in silver [180S37], ca 1972.
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@grune said in Mouthpiece too large?:
... People think Mr Bach invented his numbering as a coherent, graded series. This is not so. imho His numbering reflects his series of experiments. Inter-series, I have never found gradation. Intra-series, yes, I note some gradation. I have read some research indicating Bach intended to match cups B, C, D, E to the key of the horn: thus a B-cup m/p was intended for a Bb horn, a C intended for a C horn, etc. This may indeed be true, as any B cup does sound bigger and better on my Bb horn, than does a C cup. The C cup did sound and perform best with the C horn I had....
The old Bach mouthpiece literature actually says that. What I’ve always wondered is, why is there no Bach 4?...lol
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I love the 5b for general Bb playing. I don’t believe we should play the smallest piece we can play comfortably......
Unless I guess most of our playing is in the upper range.
I think MP choice should depend on what you’re expected to play. If most of what is expected is in the mid range then a larger piece I feel will give the best sound and flexibility.
Although I’m not a pro, and not even a great amateur. I’m an electrician by trade. -
