Posts made by tjveloce

I’m not sure that I accept the criticism that anything made by Martin after 200xxx is of poor quality. I’m fairly sure that most of us with day jobs just don’t have the ability to understand the differences between trumpets. To be clear, we might notice differences in timbre, slotting, or intonation, but ultimately we’ll compensate one way or another in order to get the sound we want, but we won’t completely understand exactly how we modify our approach in order get that sound.

As an example, a year or so ago I came across a Martin Committee from the early 60s….post 200xxx. I have a 56 Large Bore Deluxe with which I am fairly familiar. When I switch from my Committee to my Benge, or my Yamaha, I certainly can hear and feel differences in the horns, but does that imply poor quality? If a horn requires that you move more air, of pay more attention to intonation or articulation, but in doing so produces a better quality of sound, does that make it poorer quality?

I made a video, it’s around here somewhere, of me playing my 56 Committee back to back with the later model horn. I don’t recall them feeling much different as far as blow goes, and the sound was similar too.

Finally, there’s little doubt that quality control in modern horns far surpasses that of anything made in the 50s, 60s, or even 70s. So there may be a wider range of “quality” in any vintage horn, but that doesn’t mean they were all crap.

Ultimately all that matters is what you like, which will inevitably be the horn that requires the least amount of work to produce the sound you want.

-tj

In 1982 my father bought me a Benge MLP for my 16th birthday. We flew to a music store in Burbank and I played a few different models before settling on the MLP. I played it throughout high school and college, and then it slept in storage for the lost years where I wasn’t playing.

When I returned to the trumpet it was the one I started with, but a number of circumstances led me down a path that brought other horns in to my collection of “daily weapons,” most notably my Yamaha Miyashiro which has been my big band/ensemble horn of choice.

A couple years ago I took the Benge to Denver with me, so I’d have a horn to play when I was out visiting my Mother In Law, but then the pandemic happened and I’ve not travelled to Denver since. When Mom came to spend the holidays with us she brought my old Benge with her and the reunion was an unexpectedly fantastic one.

The horn has always been a very good one but I forgot how good it is. After 4 years of mostly being on the Yamaha (and 2 or so on the Committee) it’s more like the Martin than the Miyashiro. That was a big, and welcome surprise. I’m really quite surprised that the Benge has a more compact and softer core sound to it, one which I absolutely love. I spent all day getting to know it again, and promptly put the Miyashiro in its case. I’m going to use the Benge in big band rehearsal tomorrow night and see how I do with it. As far as ease of play, intonation, and dexterity, it gives up little (if any) to the Yamaha.

BTW-it’s a Los Angeles built example, most likely made in 1980 or 1981.

-tj

Ripe, Miles & Monk at Newport, The Jihye Lee Jazz Orchestra, and the new Phat Band EP, “The Reset.” I’m going to see them this weekend at Yoshi’s.

-tj

Monette mouthpieces are gold plated, and while I was a skeptic before I became a customer, I’m now sold. The way they feel on your chops is, in my view, worth it, along with they way they work for me. They’re about $400 for the Prana model if memory serves and I use one in my flugelhorn and one in my trumpet.

-tj

@richard-iii

@georgeb

I’ve got a very nice one for which I’d love to find a suitable home. It’s in the Classifieds if you’ve not already seen it.

-tj

Disclaimer-I have no interest in this horn past my promise to the owners to help find it a worthy home. I’m also lack recent experience/knowledge about cornets so the words that follow are merely my opinion, and hardly objective. Some of the information I present to you comes from the sellers based on research that they’ve done, and some comes from knowledgeable members of this forum.

This horn is the automotive equivalent of a “barn find.” If you’re unfamiliar with the term, it is used in the classic car world to describe a car that has been stored (for years or decades) and thus not subjected to the kind of abuse and neglect that often befalls vehicles when they fall in to unworthy hands.

I visited the sellers’ home here in the Bay Area and spoke to both the original owner (the father) and his son (who is also a legitimate musician of the highest order) and played the horn myself.

The cornet is a 1942 King Silvertone Master, purchased new for the father when he was in middle school. It is, as far as I can tell, in 100% original condition. The lacquer has come off in some areas which gives it a beautiful patina, but it appears never to have needed repair. The engraving on the bell is crisp and clear. I recall only one very small ding on one of the tuning slides, but it is otherwise in excellent condition. I recall a couple of the bottom caps being a bit tight but the valves are easily removed and very little (if any) signs of wear. The first valve was a tiny bit sluggish but I don’t think anything past a cleaning is necessary to fix that. The cornet is stored in its original case with a zippered canvas external cover and includes what I believe to be the original mouthpiece and a lyre. I blew some notes through it and it sounds and plays beautifully, even with though I have virtually no time on the mouthpiece I used or knowledge of the proper approach to playing cornet.

I have no need for a cornet but this horn is such a gem that I and to resist my strong desire to buy it. I’m a sucker for vintage horns, especially examples in such fine condition and with documented history.

If you’re looking for a vintage cornet with provenance, I don’t believe you’ll find a better example than this one.

Buyer pays shipping from Bay Area. To preserve the horn I'd suggest shipping it separately from the case, but that's up to the buyer. Also due to shipping costs we'll ship to contiguous United States unless buyer is willing to assist with shipping logistics and costs.

Contact me if you're interested and I'll put you in touch with the seller.

-tj

@administrator said in King Silvertone Cornet:

I think they're quite attractive. I would like to have one.

This one is available for purchase. It’s in the San Francisco Bay Area (Santa Cruz) and I’m going to help the owner find a suitable home for it. I went and saw the horn in person today, played it a little, and got the history. I’ll post the report shortly. In the mean time, if you’re interested, contact me privately.

I have no interest in the horn nor a financial stake in it. I can only say that despite not knowing much about cornets or this particular model, it is in the parlance of the vintage car world, a “Barn Find.”

-tj

Richard and flugelgirl,

Thank you for the information! Here’s some photos of it. I’m going to play it this week. Do you know if a standard trumpet mouthpiece (my Monette Prana) will fit?

-tj

A friend of a friend has asked if I might be interested in his father’s 1942 King Silvertone Cornet. It appears to be in good condition, with patina but no obvious structural or cosmetic damage. It’s stored in the original case. I don’t have a cornet, and will probably have no reason to ever use it other than for my own playing pleasure. Do you have any thoughts on how seriously I should consider it, and what average value of these old horns is?

-tj

Two vintage trumpet cases for sale. Neither one is terribly special as far as I'm aware, but they are vintage, and that's a thing right? I just can't bring myself throw them away, so hopefully someone will want them. The first was the case that my Martin Committee was in when the previous owner purchased it in 1964, so it dates back at least to that year. I have no idea what brand it is. No keys. $50 + shipping from Northern California.

The second is a Conn and as you can see, it's beat. Mildewy, no key, and the very definition of patina. $40 + shipping from Northern California.

-tj

@kehaulani

This discussion is similar to those that I have about watches and vintage Alfa Romeos, both products made in an era where things were written by hand if at all, which were manufactured in low numbers and which were never expected to become valuable, collectible items.

It’s true that people consider the best years of the Committee to be during the time period you cite. It’s also true that some people believe those same Committees are inferior to the Handcraft versions of the late 30s and early 40s. I’ve never played a Handcraft so I can’t comment on that, but logic would dictate that later horns would be better in terms of quality and consistency. Technology, metallurgy, assembly techniques and other macro-economic factors (post-war worker sentiment, pay, and empowerment) would seem to lead to a more efficient company, and thus a better product.

As for its quality, it remains a Martin Committee. You’re right that it probably shouldn’t be silver, although I’ve occasionally seen other silver examples. If it was made in 63 as the SN indicates, it is an RMC horn, but depending on the exact year of the acquisition, it could be that the case is year appropriate, although I can’t make out the “Wurlitzer badge” and you’re right, it’s not the tan case of the 50s.

What I do know is that I’ve got a fair number of hours on my 56, and that yesterday I played both back to back, and last night sat in my chair with one in each hand comparing them. My 56 is, as far as I can tell, nearly 100% original as the person I bought it from had owned it since 1964 and it was purchased used from a music store in that year.

The only differences I can find in the silver horn are the first valve “kicker” and the shape of the finger hook on the lead pipe, which is just a slightly more abbreviated “C” than on mine. The engraving is obviously new and was done after the horn was plated.

Shawn from Brass Cellar did not question its authenticity or value, stating that rebuilds are becoming more expensive and that the work on the horn alone probably cost $1500+.

What’s most important is the way it plays, and it plays beautifully. It is unmistakably “Committee” in every way, and again, very similar to the things we love and put up with when compared to my 56.

When I hold it in my hands I can’t feel like I am a fool for not buying it, because I don’t think I’ll ever find a better example of a Committee at any price.

-tj

The owner is local and a friend. Today I dropped off my Miyashiro to let him play for a week or so, and in exchange he let me take the Committee home.

I must say that it’s a damned fine horn. Playing it back to back against my 56 Deluxe Large Bore is interesting. We all rave about the Large Bore’s timbre, warmth and touch, and we buy in to the idea that only pre-1960 Committees are the best. This horn dispels those ideas.

At least for me, this horn retains nearly all of characteristics of my 56 Deluxe but has slightly easier to center intonation and without some of the distortion evident in certain valve combination slurs. If the “Committee flavor” is a 9 on my horn, this one is a 7 or an 8. It’s also curious how much heavier the silver plated horn is than my raw brass horn.

I don’t need two Committees but I want it. I talked to Shawn at Brass Cellar about it and he was impressed with its condition (from pictures) and wondered if Charlie had restored it (I don’t believe it was done by him)

-tj

The seller is a friend and someone whose integrity I can personally vouch for. I’m happy to conduct a play/visual examination as he is local. I’m also a Committee owner/player.

Be safe and come back soon! ️

-tj

My band leader was on that flight! She’s the one you refer to.

-tj