No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.

[Doodlin']

As the title says, my embouchure starts to give out at the 40 minute mark. Once my tone was wavering, I stood up to play which helped for a few minutes. It was then time to shut it down.
I assume endurance will build up naturally if one does not push practicing too hard.

[Tobylou8]

Correct. Endurance is like the old saying, "I need patience, and I need it now"!!

[Dr GO]

Prior to my retirement from my professorial gig at the medical school this past December, I taught muscle physiology in the first year medical student curriculum. We are at the mercy to the laws of physiology of muscle fiber development. So it takes about 2-6 weeks for muscle to adapt to new stress without damaging fibers. At the end of that 2-6 week span, one can add another 20% duration to the work out. So if 45 minutes is all you can do at this point, continue for several weeks at 45 minutes, than in that new week add 45 x 0.20 or about 10 minutes to the next week (55 minutes) and stay with that for another several weeks. Then advance another 20%. Keep doing this at these intervals until you reach your goal.

Let fatigue be your friend. When you loose control or start leaking air, step away from the horn for the day and start back at it tomorrow.

Let me know how this works out.

[N0isemaker]

@Dr-GO ,
At our 2 hour Band Rehearsals I have no problem, either do I have a
problem at our concerts witch last a little short of rehearsal time
I figure the constant interuptions from the band director give a little
time to rest before starting up again.
However down the basement at practice time I'm fatigued after 30 min.
of constant practice.
Allways been that way for me.
Larry

[fels]

Last December I had pneumonia and did not play for about three weeks. I followed "rehabilitation" routine for about a week and was soon back to where I was prior to the pneumonia. Mostly the routine was strict adherence to Early pages of Schlossberg.

I complain about two hour rehearsals in our jazz band (I am playing lead) BUT. those weekly two hour rehearsals gradually build up your endurance.

My practice sessions are much shorter, often several times during the day with long periods in between.

[lukarino]

Resting as much as you play (and in short sections), as cliche as it sounds, is quite effective for making your practice sessions last longer and, more importantly, for being more productive. This is especially crucial for me during the warmup. (I do very soft expanding intervals with legato tonguing, which works wonders for efficiency and sound but can be a little tiring.) However, longer practice sessions are better for building overall endurance. Maybe try alternating between the two every other day or so, and finding a good balance.

[GeorgeB]

I've been playing for 3 years now after a 50 year hiatus. At first I was lucky if I could play 10 minutes. It just takes time and a regular practice schedule along with playing lots of tunes. Our band has a 90 minute practice and when I first joined a month ago it was a real test of my endurance. Now the last piece we do doesn't sound that great at my end, but it just gets stronger. The one thing I do every afternoon is play songs for 60 minutes and the only rest I take is the time it takes to change the music on the stand, or take a sip of water. Work on it. Your endurance will come.

[Tobylou8]

When I First started back, my warm-up was my practice session!

[Vulgano Brother]

Many low impact repetitions help grow our endurance. Clarke Studies are our friend.

[Dr GO]

@fels said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

Last December I had pneumonia and did not play for about three weeks. I followed "rehabilitation" routine for about a week and was soon back to where I was prior to the pneumonia.

Absolutely. As a clarification, building the muscle from scratch takes time, but once your there, getting it back does not take nearly as long. This is because in the prior state, you already developed the "motor units". Then it's just getting back the coordination of "muscle memory".

[Dr GO]

@N0isemaker said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

@Dr-GO ,
At our 2 hour Band Rehearsals I have no problem, either do I have a
problem at our concerts witch last a little short of rehearsal time
I figure the constant interuptions from the band director give a little
time to rest before starting up again.
However down the basement at practice time I'm fatigued after 30 min.
of constant practice.
Allways been that way for me.
Larry

Larry, I agree. With breaks in between, this does not produce the same stain and demand on the muscle. But you are doing something differently during practice time. Likely you continue to play without interruption. This produces more strain, even though over a shorter time period. So the muscle feels this strain and shows it as fatigue.

I actually have used this situation to my advantage. I have developed a 2 hour aggressive practice routine and found by so doing, I have built up muscle units where I can make it through a four hour job with no problems.

Case in Point: I remember our big band rehearsal just this past Monday evening where our band leader was going over toward the end of the 2 hour rehearsal time on the chart "Nutville". We must have done the first 16 bars of the song at least a dozen times. This has in the written lead trumpet part the second A above staff that repeats several times. Our director even took a couple of the repeats in very slow time, at one point, holding each note out for four beats. I was able to resonate that second A above staff clear and full each time, thanks to my two hour rehearsal routine preparing my lip muscles for such stress. After that 2 hour band rehearsal, I then and ANOTHER 2 hour quintet rehearsal and made it through that with energy to spare. Preparing muscle in advance is the goal to such a performance success.

Here is the actual chart we played (from the Buddy Rich Band). I notice in this that the lead player only uses the E above staff. The part has in the score the second A option which is the one I have always used.:

[Three Sevens]

@Dr-GO said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

Let fatigue be your friend. When you loose control or start leaking air, step away from the horn for the day and start back at it tomorrow.

This is excellent advice!

[Three Sevens]

@Tobylou8 said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

When I First started back, my warm-up was my practice session!

Same here! I was forced to take the last 6 days off of daily practice and rehearsal by a very nasty virus. Today is my first day back and I spent it all on a carefully designed warm-up routine from the Bai Lin Lip Flexibilities book. No pain on purpose! I plan to add time and exercises into tomorrows session and continue ramping up due to a heavy schedule this coming week; 4 rehearsals and a performance next Friday. Similar schedule next week as well. To very loosely quote Dirty Harry "A man's got to know his limitations...(or his performance will definitely let him know!)"

Mike

[Tobylou8]

More trumpeters should take Dirty Harry's advice!

[N0isemaker]

@Dr-GO ,
Cool vid, looking at all those Musicians don't you know they all
have muscle pain someplace after a while.
Buddy himself i"m sure woke up with pains in his arms, just like the
piano player has hand issues plus a pain in the butt.
Lets not forget the Tuba guy with all that brass hanging on his shoulders & sitting on his lap.
Not to mention the Baritone Sax guy. ( yikes )
We all practice and play the best we can, thats what makes it fun.
Find a routine that works for you and be happy.
Larry

[Doodlin']

Good advice, thanks to all that have replied! I did play a little longer today with constant interruptions. My son wanted me to watch old school vs. new school muscle car 1/4 mile showdowns. He's gonna be a Ford guy, that's fine - put me on the list for a new Supra or Tesla.

. . . . anyway, I'm feeling more confident about the duet to be played on the 31st with my teacher. Just going from A(4)up to B is bit dicey yet.

[Dr GO]

@Doodlin said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

...My son wanted me to watch old school vs. new school muscle car 1/4 mile showdowns. He's gonna be a Ford guy, that's fine - put me on the list for a new Supra or Tesla...

In staying with the theme to the thread (and not to be charged with taking the thread off track) this is the CURRENT muscle development I use when not working on my lips:

AND my muscle development PRIOR to that one:

[Tobylou8]

My dream car in the early 80's.

This is what I ended up getting. I was happy though!

[Three Sevens]

@Tobylou8

71 degrees, Sunny in this part of the South! This is my good day ride:

[Dr GO]

@Three-Sevens said in No real gains on anything more than 40-45 minutes of practice.:

71 degrees, Sunny in this part of the South! This is my good day ride:

AND mine (good day ride) as well as my "other" car is a Jeep Wrangler, looking exactly like yours, only in Kermit the Frog-Green: