40's Holton info



  • Looking for information on specs for a mid to late 40's Holton Revelation 3rd slide stop rod and hardware. Any info would be welcomed, ie; thread size would be of help..available replacement parts ?
    I remember reading on TM something about Bach parts fitting or not. Can't remember much, as I wasn't much into Holton back then.
    Tried a Bach rod into it but seemed loose. Any helpers?

    G.



  • The stop rod on third slides of post-war Holtons is not a stop rod, but a stop screw - horizontally mounted (not the sort we think of today). Those screws are 5-40s and thread into the far post with typically a large head cast on the screw. In the 1940s, these could be a length of threaded rod with an end-nut firmly threaded on rather than a cap formed, and typically also had one nut and two bumper discs included.
    http://www.trumpet-history.com/Virtual Museum_files/image173.jpg (example is actually 1939, with a cast head on the screw)

    By the 1950s, the adjustable nut went away and the cap end was always part of the screw.
    http://www.trumpet-history.com/Virtual Museum_files/image186.jpg

    5-40 is the same thread as Bach stop-rods and nuts, however the end of the Bach part that is secured into the post is different - which is why it wont work.

    I have found that 5-40 stainless allen cap screws make a functional, if not quite as aesthetic, substitute for these.
    http://www.trumpet-history.com/Virtual Museum_files/newpic018.JPG



  • Here’s a picture of one on a 1960s model Holton cornet.
    C5F20911-38E0-4713-A846-48A7C6D820D4.jpeg

    As OSE said, you can make a functioning one from a long stainless steel screw from the hardware store. I did that for an old Reynolds cornet that was missing one.
    80B2B363-B03C-4507-8B79-1E224AE44408.jpeg



  • Thank to you both for the info. I do have an original ste up on a '47 Revelation...but nothing to measure with really. For the time being, I used a gold Strad rod(backwards) and nuts, althow, the strad theded rod seems a bit loose. I used a bit of teflon tape to make up the gap...on the knob end, I was looking for something a bit closer to the original, and find the Strad nuts a bit massive...may opt for a NY Strad (early) style end cap soldered to the end(discarded the unthreaded end)...or a salvaged old clock knob...at least for the time being I have something to keep the slide from falling off.

    Dale; thank's for the photos, I do have 2 of those nickel ones on a model 47 and a 51lb, but really wanted something special for the 45! It will take a couple weeks, but, I'll try to post a photo when I'm done

    G



  • What I have to work with, note, there where 2 gaskets, they are leather, don't know if they are originally suplied on this..one disingrated in the initial bath. Also I assume I reinstall one nut in the wrong place, but it was to keep the screw tight.DSCF8432.JPG



  • As for the trumpet-history site...I must say that it if by far the best site to see and learn about Holton trumpets and cornets..
    Good job!

    Guy



  • @tptguy said in 40's Holton info:

    What I have to work with, note, there where 2 gaskets, they are leather, don't know if they are originally suplied on this..one disingrated in the initial bath. Also I assume I reinstall one nut in the wrong place, but it was to keep the screw tight.DSCF8432.JPG

    That reminds me a little of the one Conn stop rod setup. One bumper to cushion the throw and another to cushion the return.

    D164B9F8-6757-4766-8991-B92DF9289EA9.jpeg



  • @tptguy said in 40's Holton info:

    What I have to work with, note, there where 2 gaskets, they are leather, don't know if they are originally suplied on this..one disingrated in the initial bath. Also I assume I reinstall one nut in the wrong place, but it was to keep the screw tight.DSCF8432.JPG

    On a 30s/early 40s set-up like that one cushion goes where you have one of the locking nuts, the other as you have it. These came with two. If you have a worn out belt or pair of shoes with leather, you can make replacements (or substitute a modern plastic washer). The two nuts are a locking pair - though it is exceedingly rare to come across a Holton with both still there (I have just one - wasn't sure if it was a mistake or a complete set). I have wondered if many came without the second one for locking ....

    The length was so short on these I think most people just took out the nuts and washers to get the full length throw and that then led to Holton eliminating those in the 50's screw design.

    Blue loctite can work wonders with worn threads, a little heat will break it loose if ever necessary - BUT DONT EVER USE RED!

    BTW: I had a bag of those Conn end nuts like the one in Dale's latest pic - they turned out to be 5-40!



  • @OldSchoolEuph I actually have a second complete ste that I never realised I had...go figure! minus the leather washers, so cool though. Looking to fashion a couple more for 2 other 40's Holtons. As for lenght, I find them as short as 30's Strads, with the nuts on the front side...maybe less correction was required back then?
    Still like teflon tape on the threads, don't want to use heat to get slides out for the cleaning procedures.
    I'll post photos of whatever I come up with.
    Thank you to all.

    G.


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