Lifetime quest finally paying off!
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I have had interesting musician interactions in my past, never physical, but painful in other ways.
HOWEVER
Interactions with physicians are orders of magnitude worse... and many of the times, at the expense of the patient, in more then one case, that was harmed by a warring physician. In the face of trying to maintain professionalism, I resolve these conflicts, not by physical force but by taking legal and legislative action.
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Sittin' in the morning sun
I'll be sittin' when the doctors come
Watching the lips roll in
Then I watch them roll out again, yeah -
@Sound-Advice said in Lifetime quest finally paying off!:
Mark, MD.
Sorry Sound-Advice but I'm not from Maryland
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@Sound-Advice
While my list of "why and how musicians piss me off", a lot of this was my experience decades ago. I've since learned how to hire reputable people and ignore stupid advice and comments.
Thank God for alcohol -
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Let's keep it calm here. Half the world's on lockdown, I don't want to place my forum under it either!
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@Dr-Mark said in Lifetime quest finally paying off!:
@Sound-Advice said in Lifetime quest finally paying off!:
Mark, MD.
Sorry Sound-Advice but I'm not from Maryland
Trumpet MD is (TMD). Stay safe Mike!
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@Dr-GO
"MD" as in "medical doctor".Took me a minute of being puzzled before I could figure out why you thought I was discussing Maryland. A place which oddly enough was where I started playing trumpet. But it's been 50+ years since I left.
Then it dawned on me! You inferred that I meant "MD" the 'state OF'. No. I just meant "doctor".
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@Sound-Advice said in Lifetime quest finally paying off!:
Then it dawned on me! You inferred that I meant "MD" the 'state OF'. No. I just meant "doctor".
Dr Mark MD?
Nope not a physician nor from Maryland but I am a doctor or at least that's what my undergrad and grad students called me. -
@Sound-Advice said in Lifetime quest finally paying off!:
As is typical of Stevens-Costello I do not utilize any raising or lowering of my tongue for register changes.
Ok, I'll bite. How does a trumpet player change registers without moving the front or back of the tongue/jaw? I've yet to see a trumpet player that didn't lift their tongue/jaw in order to play in the upper register and the opposite to play in the lower register. It should be noted that if a person lifts their jaw ( brings their teeth closer together) their tongue goes up by default. Here's a video that discusses this. The video starts out with how to do vibrato but within minutes, Jon discusses mouth formation and range.
In addition, The Stevens Costello article is bullshit. Here's an excerpt from page 21.
RESULT 3: EEE position of tongue causes air leakage through nasal passage, reducing needed compression at the lips. (I would say that 100% of the players that articulate EEE leak air through the nose at the peak of their range. Sound waves travel through space. The jaw is a resonator and, as such, amplifies the vibration of the lip in the mouth cavity; but part of the sound is traveling through the nose and cannot take advantage of this function of the jaw. This leakage is usually not discernable to the player or the listener. Cheek it out; see if I'm wrong. Play your highest note and while sustaining it have someone Pinch your nostrils, or do it yourself with your free hand, and notice how the sound changes.)I use EEEE for the high notes (always have) and no air leaks out of my nose. Here's the article.
http://abel.hive.no/oj/musikk/trompet/stevens/stevens.pdf -
@Dr-Mark said in Lifetime quest finally paying off!:
@Sound-Advice said in Lifetime quest finally paying off!:
...Cheek it out; see if I'm wrong. Play your highest note and while sustaining it have someone Pinch your nostrils, or do it yourself with your free hand, and notice how the sound changes.)You are right again, and when I did as you said (after eating a bowel of chili for dinner) had an embarrassing moment in front of my wife as she held my nostrils... as I did cheek it out...
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As I am aware at present, there are 4 physicians (MDs) that post here:
tmd - and internist and emergency medicine physician (that happens to practice in Maryland (MD)) so should he be tmdmd?
Dr. GO - an internist, pediatrician and pharmacologist (PhD as well)
SSmith1226 - a general surgeon
Curly Doc - a pathologist (PhD as well)And I believe Dr-Mark is a psychologist.
Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
Harrelson Summit 2017
Kanstul 1526 2012
Getzen Power Bore 1961
Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
Martin Committee 1946
Olds Super Recording 1940
Olds Recording (LA) 1953
Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
Olds Ambassador 1965 -
@Dr-GO said in Lifetime quest finally paying off!:
As I am aware at present, there are 4 physicians (MDs) that post here.
And talk about your pecking orders, harrumph.
When I was in Germany and in hospital, the head Doctor and his posse of interns were making their rounds. When he looked at my chart, he looked up at me and said, collegially, "Dr. X. I see you are one of us." And I replied jokingly, "If you can conduct a symphony orchestra, yes."
On every subsequent round, he addressed me as Mister X.
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@Kehaulani said in Lifetime quest finally paying off!:
Sound Advice - do you "know" Franklin, where he's coming from and his posting background?
Kehaulani, in fact I'm very curious to hear your, without doubt, superior analysis on both subjects.
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@Dr-GO said in Lifetime quest finally paying off!:
And I believe Dr-Mark is a psychologist.
Is a psychologist a Dr. in the USA?
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@Dr-Mark
The tongue arch matter has been s contentious issue among the trumpet community almost since valves were invented. I don't wish to enter into the arena of that discussion except to say that the Stevens Costello book does not advocate any arch or purposely raised tongue in it's system.
I agree that by closing the jaw it will automatically raise the tongue. This isn't however anything more than a natural product of physics. Also Stevens was adamant about not closing the teeth excessively. The majority of playing in the system uses a 1/4 inch separation of the teeth. And this separation stays very close to constant except when the Stevens type of player soars well above high C. Here the gap closes first to 3/16ths an inch. Then while hitting the triple register closes to 1/8th.
Stevens students are taught to be very aware of the proper separation of their teeth and check it frequently in a mirror often clipped onto a music stand. In order to gauge the separation a wooden coffee stirrer is the favorite "dipstick" of measure.
The student works with his mirror often. Learning to freeze his jaw in position after playing upwards glissandos. Then with his jaw held in same place as it was while he was playing? Checks his teeth gap with the coffee stirrer.
I'm a big fan of coffee anyway. Often brewing a batch during my warm up. Like now fer instance.
Another beauty of Stevens system is how easy it is to change register. Without the closing off of the teeth the tone stays free and easy. At first we work mostly on the proper formation of the embouchure. One of the ways that I know mine is correct is because I do not need to close my teeth until playing notes significantly above high C. All the notes from third space C to high E (three ledger lines) are played with that 1/4 inch gap between the two rows o f teeth. It's a gas. No tongue arch required.
My own experimentation with the tongue arch occurred back when I was young and playing a receded jaw Maggio "syllable" system. Perhaps a tongue movement really. is necessary in the receded jaw setting. Prior to shifting over to the Stevens approach I had worked with syllables
"Ahh" "Oooh" "Eee" and "Iiiiich" for a number of years . While I did have good range I didn't have great range. Since shifting iver to the radically different Stevens approach I've found a tongue arch to have no effect on producing intervals at all.
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@FranklinD said in Lifetime quest finally paying off!:
@Dr-GO said in Lifetime quest finally paying off!:
And I believe Dr-Mark is a psychologist.
Is a psychologist a Dr. in the USA?
Psychologist are doctors when they receive either a PhD or PsychD which is also known as a clinical psychologist.
Actually from the German origin a doctor (Doktor) is an advanced degree professional, a physician is Der Artz (not Doktor). So here in the US I tell people that I have a PhD so am a REAL doctor!
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@Kehaulani
Who gives a flying rat's ass about anyone's pedigree? No one needs stitched up, no babies are being born, no appendectomies are required and no one is facing an emotional crisis. This is a trumpet forum and in particular, the discussion is about the Stevens-Costello method and the use of the tongue/jaw movement when going from register to register.
I'm suggesting that without moving anything (any part of the tongue or jaw), a person will not achieve much range. Basically, its the size of the hole (aperture) that determines the pitch. The issue is "what is going on behind the aperture?" -
@Dr-Mark said in Lifetime quest finally paying off!:
@Kehaulani
Who gives a flying rat's ass about anyone's pedigree?"FranklinD, Kehaulani, Sound-Advice have all made comment on this post related to doctors, so I just thought I would take an opportunity to address and clarify as a friendly service offered by we member of TB.
And for clarification, we are talking about people and not animals so I believe you may have meant humandegree rather than pedigree, yes? On that note though, I did have a cheek swab performed on my daughter sent to BioPet. She came back Pitbull. I trained her well. She is now by the way, an MS Social Worker, a human degree.
