ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys



  • Yep, Its time to learn the most important progression in today's music.
    The ii/ V7/ I.
    Take each chord and play it till you're comfortable with it. For example, in the key of C, there's (D-7) (G7) and (Cmajor7). Play the D-7 scale, arpeggio or improvise on the D-7 until you are comfortable with it and then move on to the G7 and do the same followed by playing the
    C Major 7. The idea is to get the overall sound of the ii V7 I in your ears. Next, do the same thing again but only play the chords (scales & arpeggios) only for a couple of measures. Limiting it to only two measures will help solidify the sound in your ears. The play along will help once you're comfortable. No joke, this is a very important progression if you're going to do jazz and improvise.
    ii V Iā€™s In All 12 Keys. Transpose up two half steps for Bb trumpet.
    Key of C : Dm7 G7 Cmaj7
    Key of F: Gm7 C7 Fmaj7
    Key of Bb: Cm7 F7 Bbmaj7
    Key of Eb: Fm7 Bb7 Ebmaj7
    Key of Ab: Bbm7 Eb7 Abmaj7
    Key of Db: Ebm7 Ab7 Dbmaj7
    Key of Gb: Abm7 Db7 Gbmaj7
    Key of B: C#m7 F#7 Bmaj7
    Key of E: F#m7 B7 Emaj7
    Key of A: Bm7 E7 Amaj7
    Key of D : Em7 A7 Dmaj7
    Key of G: Am7 D7 Gmaj7
    In addition, here's some cool Latin feel back tracks to help.



  • Another way of looking at it is to learn ii-7/V7/IMaj7 chronologically.

    By that I mean that one usually learns a handful of tunes with a handful of scales/chords. After a number has been learned, it usually shows the most common types of progressions. These are not evenly distributed and a potential improvisor quickly discovers that learning all ii-V-Is do not bear the same practical results as learning the most commonly used progressions, first.

    There's nothing that says one can't learn all ii-7/V7/IMaj7 for mastery but I contend that time is more effectively spent practicing the most common progressions, first, rather than practicing them all with equanimity.



  • @Kehaulani said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    These are not evenly disturbed and a potential improvisor quickly discovers that learning all ii-V-Is do not bear the same practical results as learning the most commonly used progressions, first.


    They're not evenly distributed?!
    Question? Do you have a doctorate in music?
    C, F, Bb, Eb, Ab, Db/C#, F#, B, E, A, D, G



  • @Dr-Mark

    By evenly distributed, I mean that concentrating on the complete cycle of fifths (as in ii/V/Is) with equal emphasis is certainly productive from an overall perspective. But most tunes (at least from "The Great American Songbook") have a smaller handful of ii/V/Is. It's just what you want.

    Pedagogically, one's time might be best spent practicing all keys with equanimity. If you want a faster ramp-up for gigs or jam sessions, one might want to identify the most common ii/V/Is and spend the bulk of practice time on them. It's not right or wrong, just what one's most immediate needs are.

    Regarding your asking (more than once) about my academic background, it is BM, MM (Composition) and DMA (Conducting).



  • @Kehaulani said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    my academic background, it is BM and MM in Composition from University of North Texas and DMA in Conducting from The Catholic University of America. Additional work in jazz from Berklee College of Music, New School (NY), and the Manhattan School of Music. BTW, it doesn't make me any better or smarter than the next guy.


    If all that education doesn't make you a little smarter in music than the average guy/gal, you're due a refund.



  • @Dr-Mark said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    If all that education doesn't make you a little smarter in music than the average guy/gal, you're due a refund.

    LOL. I've not worked as an academic but as a performing musician for my entire career. I've learned that the world is full of people who have learned differently but who know, and can perform, much better than I.



  • I agree that the 2-5 progress is fundamental. For those looking for a method to work from, I used Aebersold's play-alongs, especially Vols 1, 2 and 3 (with Vol 3 focused on 2-5 patterns).

    To follow up on Kehaulani's remarks, I agree with his statement about the more common keys. FWIW, I currently practice most everything in 12 keys. (I also practice most everything from memory.) However, I didn't start out that way. At first, 12 keys was just too much for me. Instead I focused on the 6 most common keys (for example, keys of C, D, Eb, F, G, Bb for trumpet players).

    Mike



  • @tmd said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    Instead I focused on the 6 most common keys (for example, keys of C, D, Eb, F, G, Bb for trumpet players).


    That's probably what most will do unless they wish to play in a Friday or Saturday night blues band or wish to sit in on a jam session where the common keys are E, A, G, C and D.
    For us, that's F#, B, A, D, and E.
    Which brings me to "how to play a dirty trick on the guitarist!
    Ask the band to do the song in Eb.



  • @Dr-Mark said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    That's probably what most will do unless they wish to play in a Friday or Saturday night blues band or wish to sit in on a jam session where the common keys are E, A, G, C and D.

    "Blues"?? I thought we were talking about "Jazz". We don't play in guitar keys! šŸ˜‰ šŸ˜‰

    Just kidding. And I agree that learning everything in 12 keys is a good goal to have. But the vast majority of the Real Book tunes are in the keys I listed. There are a few exceptions, like Wave and Take Five.

    Mike



  • @tmd said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    @Dr-Mark said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:
    "Blues"?? I thought we were talking about "Jazz". We don't play in guitar keys!

    As an aside:

    Yes indeed. I was in for a shock when there was no written music (learned directly from a record player) and played most frequently in the Bb horn keys of B and F#. Anybody want to play in a cover band? Forget Coltrane changes. Play vi-7/ii-7/Vs if that much but in God awful sharp keys.



  • @tmd said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    But the vast majority of the Real Book tunes are in the keys I listed. There are a few exceptions, like Wave and Take Five.


    The Real Book kinda scares me in that I've seen more than I care to mention, musicians that seemed awfully dependent on it.



  • @Kehaulani said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    God awful sharp keys.


    Now Kehaulani, No key signature discrimination.



  • @Dr-Mark said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    @Kehaulani said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    God awful sharp keys.


    Now Kehaulani, No key signature discrimination.

    Actually, I find BMaj and F#Maj easier that some flat keys. Maybe it's orientation.



  • @Dr-Mark said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    The Real Book kinda scares me in that I've seen more than I care to mention, musicians that seemed awfully dependent on it.

    It "scares" you? Many people are "awfully dependent" on it?

    Why?

    Mike



  • @tmd said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    It "scares" you? Many people are "awfully dependent" on it?
    Why?


    Hi Mike,
    Maybe scared is the wrong word. Maybe dissapointed is better.
    There's been more than a handful (more like a fist full) of times I've been at a jam and someone calls (for example), Autumn Leaves. Then I hear someone say; "I have the Real Book but its on my Ipad and I didn't bring it with me". There's a lot to be said about memorizing tunes. Are there people that can read on stage and improvise like crazy? Yes and I've performed with them. But unfortunately, I've seen a growing dependence on them and most (by far most) struggle to read and then when the time comes, they improvise minimally. Those are my observations.
    On a positive note, I do know people that carry the Real Book (for ex;David, a keyboard player I sometimes use) that use it to check the key signature of a song or to look up a song they have memorized but can't quite bring it to mind but once this is figured out, they put the book away.
    Hopefully this answers your question.



  • @Dr-Mark said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    @tmd said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    It "scares" you? Many people are "awfully dependent" on it?
    Why?


    There's been more than a handful (more like a fist full) of times I've been at a jam and someone calls (for example), Autumn Leaves. .

    Specific to Autumn Leaves... I love playing my improv hitting on the flatted 5th of the chords that progress by. Adds some refreshment to the traditional changes. Leaves a lasting impression don't cha know!



  • @tmd said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:
    ...And I agree that learning everything in 12 keys is a good goal to have. But the vast majority of the Real Book tunes are in the keys I listed. There are a few exceptions, like Wave and Take Five.

    Mike

    That is how Claudio Roditi taught me improve. He had me prepare a lesson from a transcribed solo of a jazz performer and my lesson was to run that solo through all 12 keys. This really helped the fluidity of my phrasing (which is why I feel comfortable soloing in ANY key).



  • @Dr-Mark said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    @tmd said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    It "scares" you? Many people are "awfully dependent" on it?


    Maybe scared is the wrong word. Maybe dissapointed is better.

    As I said above, I practice most everything in 12 keys, and I memorize most everything. And although I haven't put my real books away for good, I can't remember the last time I needed one at a gig. I agree with you 100% on these topics.

    But while we all mean well, sometimes our enthusiasm can appear more dogmatic than we intended. As players continue to develop, they'll eventually focus on all 12 keys, and will eventually put their real books away. But not everyone is at this level yet. Give people a chance to walk, before we insist that they have to run.

    That being said, I like your efforts to add good foundational content, like the ii/V7 in all keys.

    Mike



  • @tmd said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    Give people a chance to walk, before we insist that they have to run.


    Hi Mike,
    That's the way people tend to learn, from easiest to hardest. Unfortunately, some stagnate and wallow in the easy keys for years which is totally okay. To each their own. For me, it boils down to hunger or fear. Is the person hungry enough to learn the tough stuff or frightened of failure enough to learn the tough stuff? It's those that are willing to wrestle with the tough stuff regardless of motivation that separates the big dogs from the little dogs. Woof!

    "Jarvis, sometimes you have to run before you walk".
    Tony Stark



  • @tmd said in ii/ V7/ I in All Twelve Keys:

    That being said, I like your efforts to add good foundational content, like the ii/V7 in all keys.


    Thanks tmd!


Log in to reply