Jaw Position and the Upper Register

Kehaulani

Thanks. , , ,

Hi Dr-GO
Here goes.

@Dr-GO

"Smile toward your eyes. THAT is a vertical smile. Notice my eyes buff out (not my jaw)".
Really? I don't see a smile. Your corners appear pretty much straight across like Mendez and Brain Shook advocates.

Dr GO

Thanks Dr. Mark for illustrating my point. What you forgot to identify on the picture is the focus on the facial contours of the actual muscles in use. As for the corner of the lips, that is soft tissue that is compressed by the mouthpiece so will not turn up unless I take the mouthpiece away. If I did, and kept the embouchure intact, you would then see the corners go up. Try this yourself in a mirror and you will see this happen. Also if you continue to blow when you do this, you will hear "Phwooooo" (not buzz).

Now lets look at the picture with more detail:

Focus your attention on the blue circles under my eyes. There is a shine from the spot light above. That is because that part of my cheeks are rounded off by the vertical smile. Look just lateral to the circle. The shine goes away. That is the point where the muscle insertion to the zygimatic arch ends.

Now focus on the red circle that tracks the muscle that attaches to the jaw for the traditional horizontal smile that creates the buzz. If those muscles were in play, the creases to my cheeks would flatten in that plane. Clearly you can see in within the red circle, the creases are intact. Hence. no lateral smile muscle use. It is all vertical.

Thanks again for proving my point.

@Dr-GO said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

Thanks again for proving my point.

You're welcome.
I tried it and I still don't get it but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. Like you said, "JUST REMEMBER, ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL"
The more popular approach to embouchure development is to start by forming the lips as if saying "M". While the video is about jaw placement and the upper register, what you propose is interesting.

Kehaulani

Can anyone point me to a source of information on vertical embouchure. I'm still at odds with the term. Thanks.

@Kehaulani said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

Can anyone point me to a source of information on vertical embouchure. I'm still at odds with the term.

I did a fairly deep Internet search and could find nothing. The only thing I could find was that the smile embouchure is a flawed or faulty approach. Your best bet is to ask Dr-GO in a chat. He can tell you where and how.

Kehaulani

Well, I had the same experience. I think I'll just put it to rest.

@Kehaulani said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

I think I'll just put it to rest.

Me too

Dr GO

@Dr-Mark said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

@Kehaulani said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

Can anyone point me to a source of information on vertical embouchure. I'm still at odds with the term.

I did a fairly deep Internet search and could find nothing. The only thing I could find was that the smile embouchure is a flawed or faulty approach. Your best bet is to ask Dr-GO in a chat. He can tell you where and how.

Dr. Mark.... Can you give one of your TH members credit. You won't find it on the internet. I am the one who created it, after a decade of teaching muscle physiology and writing teaching modules for the histology and physiology curriculum at our medical school, it just made sense. Half way through that decade of teaching on facial muscles, I had that light bulb moment in studying the insertion of muscle groups in the face that I came up with the vertical smile concept, also referred to as the Phwoooooo technique (the sound made by using this embouchure). So you won't find it on the internet. You will find it only here and on TM were originally described it.

It is the most amazing change I have made in my embouchure, and my motivation was playing the original charts we were writing in Eddie Brookshire's Quintet. Using this approach was the only way I could survive a 4 hour gig with that ensemble.

@Dr-GO said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

I am the one who created it, after a decade of teaching muscle physiology and writing teaching modules for the histology and physiology curriculum at our medical school, it just made sense.

Like I said, You might want to post it as a NEW TOPIC so people will know about it and can ask intelligent (and otherwise) questions about it. Throw it out there and see if it can handle the slings and arrows of a rough public that's particular to trumpet. You very well may have the next new thing on your hands.
Without giving it a serious study but, personally giving it a try, I question it's validity. However, your idea will only go as far as you, if you don't put it out there. Heck, if it catches on, you can justifiably name it after yourself.

@Dr-GO said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

the Phwoooooo technique (the sound made by using this embouchure).

So if a person wishes to attempt your vertical smile embouchure, all they would need to do is to form the lips by saying "Phoooooo" instead of "M"?

Dr GO

@Dr-Mark said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

@Dr-GO said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

the Phwoooooo technique (the sound made by using this embouchure).

So if a person wishes to attempt your vertical smile embouchure, all they would need to do is to form the lips by saying "Phoooooo" instead of "M"?

Yes, unless they want to say PhooooooM.

And isn't there a Christmas Carol that goes: PhooooooM, PhooooooM, PhooooooM. That would be a prefect embouchure for that one.

Dr GO

@Dr-Mark said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

@Dr-GO said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

I am the one who created it, after a decade of teaching muscle physiology and writing teaching modules for the histology and physiology curriculum at our medical school, it just made sense.

...You might want to post it as a NEW TOPIC so people will know about it and can ask intelligent (and otherwise) questions about it..

Why do this? If it is not publicized, then it will only be me (and Tine Thing - as during an interview she stated: I do not buzz, but sound more like Phwoooo) that uses it and together WE WILL DOMINATE THE TRUMPET WORLD.... Mwahahahaaaaaaa!

@Dr-GO said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

Tine Thing - as during an interview she stated: I do not buzz, but sound more like Phwoooo

Could you post that interview so we can better understand? You stated
"Tine Thing - as during an interview she stated: "I do not buzz""
I was watching not long ago an interview on YouTube called Sarah's Horn Hangouts w/ Tina and at 22:34 she talks about buzzing. She then demonstrates buzzing the mouthpiece and there doesn't appear to be any flexing of the muscles that go up to the eye socket nor was the eyes buffed nor does she verbally address any unusual ways of embouchure formation. As for free buzzing, I have the same situation as Tina in that I can't free buzz very well at all but all in all, she appears to use an "M" embouchure.
Just so we don't forget, the TOPIC is jaw placement and the upper register. You've discussed the vertical smile embouchure. How does the embouchure you advocate relate to Jon Ruff's instructional video about jaw placement and the upper register?

Dr GO

@Dr-Mark said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

@Dr-GO said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

Tine Thing - as during an interview she stated: I do not buzz, but sound more like Phwoooo

Could you post that interview so we can better understand? You stated
"Tine Thing - as during an interview she stated: "I do not buzz""
Tina and at 22:34 she talks about buzzing. She then demonstrates buzzing the mouthpiece

Yes. Her actual quote is "I can't buzz". And then she says I do this... and Phwoooos. Thanks for proving my point. Listen again Dr. Mark and do not let your bias get the best of you, Yes?

@Dr-GO said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

Yes. Her actual quote is "I can't buzz". And then she says I do this... and Phwoooos. Thanks for proving my point. Listen again Dr. Mark and do not let your bias get the best of you, Yes?

Just trying to understand how an embouchure no one has ever heard of applies to Jon Ruff's instructional video on Jaw Position and Range?
This is almost like someone picking the Topic "Why I Like Blue" and someone starts posting in the same topic the virtues of red.

Dr GO

@Dr-Mark said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

@Dr-GO said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:
...You've discussed the vertical smile embouchure. How does the embouchure you advocate relate to Jon Ruff's instructional video about jaw placement and the upper register?

Jaw placement is no longer an issue with the vertical smile. AGAIN DR. MARK LOOK AT THE DIAGRAM:

Do you see the insertions on the upper part of the orbicularuis? THAT INSERTION IS ABOVE THE JAW. Can you move the jaw with this embrochure? Sure, if you want to. I sometimes recruit the "frown muscles" to do this as it give the horn a darker tone, almost flugelhorn in character.

Jon Ruff's instructional video about jaw placement and upper register DOES NOT APPLY to the vertical smile technique. The vertical smile does it all. If you all want to work harder at the upper register, then do the traditional lateral smile and make it Ruff on yourself.

Dr GO

@Dr-GO said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

@Dr-Mark said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

@Dr-GO said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:
...You've discussed the vertical smile embouchure. How does the embouchure you advocate relate to Jon Ruff's instructional video about jaw placement and the upper register?

Can you move the jaw with this embrochure? Sure, if you want to. I sometimes recruit the "frown muscles" to do this as it give the horn a darker tone, almost flugelhorn in character.

I once demonstrated the sound I could get on my Olds Recording by relaxing and opening the lower jaw by having Keigo, our keyboardist, with his eyes closed to tell me if I was using my trumpet or flugelhorn. Then played my Recording. He said quickly... "Oh that's your flugelhorn". When he opened his eyes and saw the trumpet, my reply to him was: "Ok, now make your acoustic piano sound like a B-3!

@Dr-GO said in Jaw Position and the Upper Register:

Jon Ruff's instructional video about jaw placement and upper register DOES NOT APPLY to the vertical smile technique.

Thank you. Hopefully people that are searching how to play in the upper register will listen to Jon and not get sidetracked by someone advocating an embouchure no one has heard of, no Internet site supports, and when tried, doesn't appear to do what the person advocating it says.
Here's what I suggest. Let's cut through the crap and quit wasting time. Video yourself doing the same thing on the trumpet that Jon is doing but use your embouchure and we'll put them side by side and compare and contrast.
Good Luck!