Conjecture, Please

[J. Jericho]

Who played lead trumpet in Edwin Astley's orchestra on the original "Danger Man" theme (0:00 - 4:53)?

[Seth of Lagos]

@j-jericho said in Conjecture, Please:

Who played lead trumpet in Edwin Astley's orchestra on the original "Danger Man" theme (0:00 - 4:53)?

Are you sure that the original (ie series 1) Danger Man theme was played by Edwin Astley's orchestra?

My Dad had the Parlophone recording (1961?) by the Red Price Combo - a one hit wonder. But Red Price played (tenor sax) mainly with Ted Heath so maybe (going off links like https://www.discogs.com/master/576628-Ted-Heath-And-His-Music-Ted-Heath-Recalls-The-Fabulous-Dorseys) one might speculate Bert Ezard?, Bobby Pratt? Duncan Campbell?, Eddie Blair?

[J. Jericho]

@seth-of-lagos said in Conjecture, Please:

@j-jericho said in Conjecture, Please:

Who played lead trumpet in Edwin Astley's orchestra on the original "Danger Man" theme (0:00 - 4:53)?

Are you sure that the original (ie series 1) Danger Man theme was played by Edwin Astley's orchestra?

My Dad had the Parlophone recording (1961?) by the Red Price Combo - a one hit wonder. But Red Price played (tenor sax) mainly with Ted Heath so maybe (going off links like https://www.discogs.com/master/576628-Ted-Heath-And-His-Music-Ted-Heath-Recalls-The-Fabulous-Dorseys) one might speculate Bert Ezard?, Bobby Pratt? Duncan Campbell?, Eddie Blair?

I was hoping you'd respond, since you're familiar with that part of the world (and at least one other) and the approximate time frame, that you would have some insight into my question.

Edwin Astley wrote both "Theme From Danger Man" and "High Wire" for the series. I would think that since he had his own orchestra and used it for all the musical accompaniment for the program, that he would have used it for the themes as well. His orchestra did play "High Wire", and to my ear it has the same continuity of sound as "Theme" and "The Saint", unlike other recordings by Red Price, Ted Heath, and others who covered the tunes, and with whom the players you mentioned were associated.

It just now occurred to me that Edwin Astley and John Barry created very similar sounds (at least the way I hear their arrangements). I wonder if there were musicians who played in both men's orchestras....

[Seth of Lagos]

@j-jericho said in Conjecture, Please:

@seth-of-lagos said in Conjecture, Please:

@j-jericho said in Conjecture, Please:

Who played lead trumpet in Edwin Astley's orchestra on the original "Danger Man" theme (0:00 - 4:53)?

Are you sure that the original (ie series 1) Danger Man theme was played by Edwin Astley's orchestra?

My Dad had the Parlophone recording (1961?) by the Red Price Combo - a one hit wonder. But Red Price played (tenor sax) mainly with Ted Heath so maybe (going off links like https://www.discogs.com/master/576628-Ted-Heath-And-His-Music-Ted-Heath-Recalls-The-Fabulous-Dorseys) one might speculate Bert Ezard?, Bobby Pratt? Duncan Campbell?, Eddie Blair?

I was hoping you'd respond, since you're familiar with that part of the world (and at least one other) and the approximate time frame, that you would have some insight into my question.

Edwin Astley wrote both "Theme From Danger Man" and "High Wire" for the series. I would think that since he had his own orchestra and used it for all the musical accompaniment for the program, that he would have used it for the themes as well. His orchestra did play "High Wire", and to my ear it has the same continuity of sound as "Theme" and "The Saint", unlike other recordings by Red Price, Ted Heath, and others who covered the tunes, and with whom the players you mentioned were associated.

It just now occurred to me that Edwin Astley and John Barry created very similar sounds (at least the way I hear their arrangements). I wonder if there were musicians who played in both men's orchestras....

Not really. The lone trumpeter in the John Barry Seven was John Barry, and through that period he was under contract to Columbia.

Quoting from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_Man:

"Singles
1961 – "Theme from Danger Man", The Red Price Combo (main theme used in the 1st Series) – Parlophone 45 R 4789
1964 – Danger Man "High Wire", The Bob Leaper Orchestra (alternative main theme, not used in any episodes. Features electric piano) – PYE 7N 15700
1965 – Danger Man "High Wire", The Edwin Astley Orchestra (not used in series, arrangement influenced series 4 theme arrangement) – RCA 1492
1965 – Danger Man "High Wire", The Ivor Slaney Orchestra (alternative arrangement, not used in any episodes) – HMV POP 1347"

... which confirms the Red Price -Ted Heath link.

Plus Bert Ezard was something of a legend on the London sessions scene so if I were a betting man, that's where my money would go.

John Barry Seven were more Yorkshire based, and indeed John Barry was born in York a couple of months before my mother. As she was a fanatical cinema goer and Barry's father managed a bunch of local cinemas, she knew of him (though obviously denied that he knew her in any way shape or form. Ahem).

[J. Jericho]

@seth-of-lagos What do you think of this? https://www.johnbarry.org.uk/index.php/snippets/item/900-who-played-trumpet-on-the-bond-scores-1962-1974 Do you recognize any of the names you didn't already mention? If they played for John Barry, might they have played for Edwin Astley, too?

[Seth of Lagos]

It just now occurred to me that Edwin Astley and John Barry created very similar sounds (at least the way I hear their arrangements). I wonder if there were musicians who played in both men's orchestras....

Got to remember that the top flight of British trumpeters are almost exclusively classically trained with probably a majority from a BBB cornet background. So they aren't generally limited to a particular musical style (as maybe more the case in the US) and would be expected to play whatever is put in front of them in whatever style was appropriate for the music.

So any similarity between the Edwin Astley and John Barry sounds really tells you very little about who's actually blowing the instruments.

Having said that, your Bond sessions link mentioned 3 of the 4 I did. I recognise a couple of other names there, but also remember that it's clear that all these guys knew one another. If one session was short-handed, anybody in town at the time could have got the call to fill in.

One notable name that's not been mentioned so far is Kenny Baker who could well be a distinct possibility. Again, technically near faultless due to his BBB background and probably best known as the real 'voice' of Kay Kendall in Genevieve.

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[administrator]

@Seth-of-Lagos that's true, I loved the playing of Maurice Murphey. Being a well-rounded musician is always a good thing.