ditto the Wow
Posts made by Trumpetb
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RE: Is It Jazz or Is It Classical?
In defence of Kehaulani who perhaps did not mean that J S Bach himself made any modern recordings, but perhaps was alluding to J S Bachs music performed in a modern setting, which was intended to be improvised from the compositions "caught on paper".
I would agree with kehaulani in this, if this is his meaning, we need to look beyond the superficial performances which can and do vary, but to look at the historical context of the time in which they were composed, to see the intent behind the score.
J S Bach intended there to be improvisation in his works I believe, and this can be seen on this site on the topic of performing his choral works and contemporary works during the Baroque period.
At 5.32 the statement from the time by Praetorius stating "additional instrumental voices or capella which are there only as circumstances allow, for adornment"
Adornment in Baroque choral and instrumental performances from what I have seen of it typically means improvisation.
In my opinion then for what it is worth the Baroque choral works and the choral works of Bachs contemporaries at the time were expected to have an element of improvisation within them in performance.
I see this as strong evidence that J S Bach indeed expected improvisation of the works caught on paper in his compositions as kehaulani perhaps suggests.
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RE: Is It Jazz or Is It Classical?
@administrator I totally agree.
It is interesting to note that this was as true as much in the baroque and renaissance times as it is now.
The improvs quite often became chaotic and discordant to the displeasure of musicologists of the time.
I guess things eventually come full circle so easily.
Some Jazz improvs are spectacularly beautiful as are many orchestral works. But then some leave me cold in both genres.
When I am reaching for something new I often crash and burn, it comes I think with the territory.
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RE: Is It Jazz or Is It Classical?
@ROWUK I am so much in agreement with your post.
Greatness in my world exists outside of improvisation or technique or articulation or modes or scales or tone or pitch or anything else we can formulate describe demand or govern.
Louis once said "Jazz, you will know it when you hear it"
I would paraphrase that and say Greatness, you will know it when you hear it.
Music can be performed perfectly and yet be clinical and mechanical.
A great performance can be less than perfect and be great non the less.
In a world of computer beats, autotune, and computer generated rhythm, we easily spot the perfection and reject it in favour of the imperfect.
In so many ways the imperfect sounds perfect and this is the ultimate paradox, that is to seek perfection we must embrace the imperfect, or we accept rigid and mechanical offerings.
I am listening to Pavarotti in a 1991 performance as I type this, his performance is less than perfect in many subtle ways and yet it is a great performance from a great man.
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RE: $800 Box of Mouthpieces!
I would liken mouthpiece, instrument, and player, to car and driver.
A new or inexperienced driver does not have the skills or experience to benefit from driving different cars. They desire a change to drive faster or better but they cannot fully extract higher performance from the cars they drive.
A seasoned driver with huge experience understands the car and their abilities far better and they know how to extract good performance from the car and they can successfully change vehicles and extract high performance from each one they change to.
In other words the seasoned professional can acclimate quickly to a new car, when the inexperienced driver cannot.
I cannot speak for other players but my personal experience is I can now acclimate quickly to a new mouthpiece or new instrument, where before when I was far less experienced, it took me a long time to acclimate following a change.
I also believe that failed mouthpiece safaris may be at least partly due to the player embarking upon the safari at a point in their playing when they are less able to benefit from the changes in the safari.
I have myself never gone on a safari, I have known there is a problem, and known what mouthpiece size and shape is likely to help resolve the problem and then made a change to see if I am right. Usually I have been right.
Having a collection helps me in doing this.
Knowing your playing, knowing your equipment and knowing what effect the change will make goes a long way to making the right choice when changing and having a collection enables test changes to happen easily instead of having to wait to acquire a test mouthpiece you do not possess.
It was obvious to me just as soon as the wick 4 that I use now was in the breech, that it was the right choice partly because I knew before trying it that it was more than likely going to resolve my issue at the time and why it would resolve it.
No acclimation was needed. It has been good from the first note and has since performed faultlessly for several months and for hundreds of performances in all styles from salsa to blues to jazz to legit to baroque and to opera.
Know yourself, know your equipment, know what difference a change will make then there is a good chance the change will take you at least part of the way on your journey.
Like a journey from arizona to washington, knowing where you are, knowing where you need to be, and having a good map, helps to get where you need to be and helps stop you getting lost on the way.
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RE: $800 Box of Mouthpieces!
Absolutely fabulous and a good collection
I too firmly believe that holding a broad collection of mouthpieces is the way to go.
I cant understand the philosophy that some players appear to hold, of owning just one mouthpiece and then if they want to try something new they spend weeks or months asking for advice and debating which mouthpiece they might buy in order to try out a different mouthpiece.
That seems such a waste of time and effort spent in choosing when they could be playing.
It only takes 10 seconds to grab and try one out if you already have it with you.
I also have a couple of mouthpiece cornet/trumpet converters and having these has allowed me to try all my cornet mouthpieces in my trumpets as well as all my trumpet mouthpieces.
This approach has allowed me to settle on a wick 4 cornet mouthpiece on trumpet with the converter as my go to daily player combination.
This combination does everything I need and I would never have been able to discover it without having a cornet mp collection and a trumpet mp collection and a converter.
Not only this but you helped a musician friend by providing a collection for him. What could be better than this
Way to go Dale
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RE: Question
I cannot answer for anyones spiritual wellbeing or the possibility of their joining or having joined the choir immortal.
Or indeed having had their spirits lifted by beverages however intoxicating.
All I can perhaps hope is that those who have lived in the former existence on the former TM site might have been reborn to a better existence in here.
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RE: Question
I agree with all sentiments stated here.
It can be looked upon as a simple cost - benefit exercise.
What exactly is the cost and is there a benefit.
The cost while not being prohibitive will probably be ongoing and may spawn further costs down the line.
I dont see any benefit.
All things have a lifetime they come to an end and die, and if you dont let them die when the time comes, they can become zombie like and only deliver existence with no real purpose.
Perhaps it is time to let the old site die so that life can move on.
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RE: Bots are getting scary
I should add that most of the problems cited as AI failures or computer failures and the disasters that they caused turn out to be humans making bad decisions and blaming it on AI and the computers.
I do not have a fear of AI I have a concern that humans will corrupt what AI does.
Einstein famously said "I believe two things are infinite, the size of the Universe, and human stupidity - and I am not sure about the Universe"
Humans are the problem with AI not the AI itself.
So I say again I do not feel threatened or worried by AI.
But the humans who control AI, they are a different thing altogether.
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RE: Bots are getting scary
@ROWUK I dont recall saying that an AI is in itself or in any way a human state. It is a machine with responses to inputs based upon complex algorithms that mimic human thought and human decision making.
In a closed system a machine can make responses that appear to be human depending upon their sophistication.
Turings Test examines this very question.
If a box exists and questions are posed to the box and the answers received from the box appear to be exactly the same as a human would give, how do we know if inside the box there is a machine or a human.
This is the essence and the problem that AI poses.
We can make a program appear to be human, and we know it is not human, but those who interact with it can be deceived into believing that it is human, Until that is they open the box and look inside.
The question of students using AI to submit papers, is nothing more than a sophisticated Turings test, the professor viewing the paper would be easily deceived that the author is a human and therein lies the issue and the challenge for professors.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it may very well be an AI that is pretending to be a duck.
I am happy that we are in agreement ROWUK
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RE: Bots are getting scary
I love that.
Petersons expertise is in philosophy and psychology and while he does stray into other areas generally, here he has stayed solidly within his area of expertise.
I found it hugely amusing and full of hope and his comments were totally on topic and pointedly correct in my opinion.
He seems to be suggesting we have something to fear from AI, I disagree.
Back in the day calculators were banned from the classroom and the examination room, for fear of removing the ability to think from students. The fears were ungrounded.
Right now we have to spend several years and over 100,000 dollars training each human student to become capable and this AI is already capable and genuinely useful.
Beyond this training a student who becomes qualified is not capable until he or she has completed maybe a decade of work and it is the experience gained in this decade of work that truly completes their training.
I dont see the AI learning through working for 10 years and gaining experience in a role.
The AI is like a student fresh from the college, you dont put such a student in charge of anything.
The AI can be looked upon simply as a better tool.
The usefulness of this AI of course only relates to general work tasks and output. Humans are capable of insightful spontaneous and innovative invention.
I dont see the AI taking over the somewhat illogical leaps of thought and intellect that human beings are capable of.
In other words I see the AI just like all other areas of computer advances, taking over the mundane work, but the application of that work, the inspired and inspirational innovation remains the sole province of humans who reside in the genius area of research and development.
An AI after all simply follows rules that humans devise, and that fundamentally limits what they can do.
Poor, Average, and High Quality scientists and engineers follow rules, genius scientists and engineers depart from those rules and break new ground and humanity develops to new heights.
How can an AI break the accepted rules unless it is programmed not to follow rules and that must defeat the AI right from the start.
I dont feel threatened or at all worried.
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RE: Could there be another Bix today
I think you misunderstand what I was trying to say.
I did not mean he was musically uneducated, reading scores and being musically educated are two different things as you said.
What I mean to say is he developed new styles and ways of playing unrelated to others. This is one of the signs of genius.
It has been said that because Bix was not formally or classically trained he developed a range of alternate fingerings that were unique to him.
In the excellent "Current Research on Jazz" "Bruce Boyd Raeburn" published these words about Bix "Bix is the only musician who created a separate and distinct jazz style"
And then went on to say "Bix pulled his style right out of the sky. He would sit in front of the Joe Oliver band, with Louis in it, enjoy it immensely yet not one phrase or lick did he ever get from them"
For these reasons and many others my opinion is that Bix while he was definitely influenced by others, broke new ground in his playing and his influence on Jazz was profound innovative and influential.
This is the link to the current research on jazz article
https://www.crj-online.org/v4/CRJ-BixNewOrleans.php -
RE: The difference in timbre caused by using additional valves
@J-Jericho Thanks for confirming that timbre changes are real and present. I had not heard them and had not expected that.
Perhaps different people simply do hear things quite differently, and there can be an acute sensitivity to timbre in some people.
I am put in mind of synesthesia and colour blindness.
Synesthetes see colours and shapes when they hear sounds and perhaps have difficulty understanding those who are not synesthetes.
I should thank the member who opened my eyes to this particular sensitivity to timbre.
I feel it will be valuable to hear other members experiences in this area as well to maybe establish a yardstick this would be valuable to understand on a deeper level what our audiences are actually hearing and experiencing.
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RE: The difference in timbre caused by using additional valves
@Dr-GO Thanks for the replies.
By the sound of it our experience is much the same, I too have the ability to alter the timbre by embouchure and chops changes.
I suspect that the people who have questioned my ability to hear timbre changes when using valves maybe have more acute heating than I have, but if my hearing is similar to most of the other players then I think I have nothing to worry about.
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The difference in timbre caused by using additional valves
I dont wish to start a fight or an argument but I am slightly worried by things that have been said to me, so I am asking for an opinion from the gifted players in here.
I am not trying to be funny here it is an honest question after being told how trumpets really sound as they are played.
This is the problem I have.
It has been said that the number of bends or the amount of bend in the wrap alters the timbre of the instrument and this is used to explain why the cornet with an extra 180 degrees of bend in the wrap plus a shepherds crook has a very different timbre than a trumpet with fewer bends and no shepherds crook.
An opinion I have stated in here is that if the bends in the wrap cause a change to the timbre then we should hear different timbres in the trumpet when using different valve combinations because they add bends to the wrap.
The timbre change should be significant and very noticeable when adding three valves compared to playing open for example.
I should also be hearing a large timbre change when playing the exact same note with valves 1 and 2 compared to playing the alternate fingering of valve 3 alone. But I do not hear a timbre change.
I do hear a detectable but slight pitch difference between the two fingerings, but the timbre of the instrument sounds the same to me when the pitch changes.
So why does a trumpet with two valves pressed not sound darker and richer than a cornet played open when the trumpet with two valves pressed has more bends in the wrap than the cornet has when played open.
I have been told that these large timbre changes absolutely do happen when you use the valves and I have been told there is something wrong with my hearing if I cant hear these timbre changes.
When you guys use the valves do your trumpets sound at first like trumpets and then they sound like cornets and then sound like flugel horns.
I do not hear that at all my trumpet sounds like my trumpet as I ascend, I dont think I could play an instrument that sounds radically different in character every time I press a valve. The simplest melody would sound like a bunch of amateurs playing each note separately on a range of brass instruments. I dont want that.
Mariachi trumpet sounds bright but it sounds bright to me on all the notes played, Mariachi doesnt sound like a mariachi when played open and like a flugelhorn when played with all valves down.
All my instruments and I have several have the same timbre as I ascend. The timbre of course is different at the upper register than at the lower register but that is not what been expressed to me.
I do not want to play an instrument that changes its character radically when I press a valve or two. If I have a medical condition that stops me hearing my trumpets correctly, I need to know and get some help.
I feel ridiculous asking this, but I have been told there is something wrong with my hearing so I have to ask the question.
So what is going on enlighten me on this.
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RE: Could there be another Bix today
I have come to realise that you are both correct.
The boat has indeed sailed as you say Kehaulani.
And Bix was a champion without the benefit of modern tools like internet youtube netflix. He broke new ground in his day totally unaided as did Louis.
Thank you for your comments and for illuminating my understanding.
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RE: Weirdest thing happened
I am speaking of the playing back of recordings only.
If a note is played on let us say a trombone and the slide is lengthened the pitch falls but there is no tempo as such it is a single note.
If this pitch is played within a piece of music then there are notes preceding and notes following the note in question.
Now we have tempo and pitch together.
If we record this music consisting of pitch and tempo and we speed up the playback of the recording then the pitch rises, they are locked together by the recording medium.
If we slow the playback the pitch falls, again they are locked together.
We can of course in a live performance slow the tempo while keeping the pitches correct, but the thread was only concerned with playing back on a computer, a recording of a performance and the pitch changed while the tempo of the recording was unchanged.
With a cd or a tape recording or a pressed LP, if you alter the tempo you alter the pitch.
Computers can however take a recording with a tempo and pitches and slow the tempo while keeping the pitch constant, or change the pitch without altering the tempo.
I therefore have said pitch and tempo in the real world are locked together but in the computer world they are not locked together.
Or do you perhaps know of a way of changing the speed of a gramaphone or of a tape machine without altering the pitches. I have never seen that I would be very interested in learning of it.
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RE: Weirdest thing happened
I agree it was speculation, thats why I called it speculation.
Yes I did not place a conclusion at the end because it was speculation and as such should not have a conclusion.
Speculation is for example the light in the sky might be an airoplane, an added conclusion would be, the light in the sky might be an airoplane therefore the light is an airpolane.
Look I am not explaining what pitch is I am explaining that a computer program can control pitch independently of tempo,
Again you misunderstand what I write or misread it.
I explained that pitch and tempo in the real world are locked together I know you know this, but I expanded that with in the computer world pitch and tempo are separated and independently controlled.
If you have a degree in computer communications that does not necessarily include programming and media.
I have 30 years in IT. I have programmed in several languages I have worked in comms I have authored software in assembly language for a major computer manufacturer.
If you claim my post had nothing helpful in it, I would expect that you have asked that of the OP rather than simply express your own opinion.
As for my coming across as being knowledgeable in music I dont believe I am certainly not compared to the majority of members.
I have however learned a great deal and enjoyed some success so I have opinions and I will express them.
And I will say this, you appear to demand that writing in here must have a conclusion, not every piece of writing has a conclusion, stop demanding conclusions all the time.
If the posts to the threads in here are only allowed to have absolute answers in them and every post must have a conclusion then most of the questions will go unanswered and the site might die due to inactivity.
Allow people to speculate, allow people to have opinions, do not demand there must be a conclusion in every post.
Remember that if a thread remains unanswered within a certain time it will be locked and quite right too, but your demands may force the locking of threads due to there being no replies.
We dont want that do we.
There thats a conclusion
Feel free to complain about my wall of text
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RE: Weirdest thing happened
The original post you quoted saying it was packed with verbiage was this
"May I speculate
The apple store has an app that allows the listener to freely change the pitch and the tempo of a tune in the media library separately.
In other words you can take a tune in the library and alter a tempo slider that alters the tempo but keeps the pitch the same.
Or
You can shift a pitch slider and the tempo stays the same but the pitch changes.
In the real world with real instruments and real recordings this is not possible, shift a recordings tempo and the pitch changes. The pitch and the tempo are locked together.
Not so in the computer world.
Pitch and tempo are simply elements of the digital audio world. This is the reason that autotuners can function and alter the pitch of an out of tune singer while keeping the tempo fixed, or alter the pitch of an out of tune instrument and keep the tempo fixed.
Obviously you were not purposefully adjusting the pitch or the tempo but that doesnt mean that changes that affect the pitch were not able to happen.
Computer software is clearly in complete control of pitch and tempo and the two can act independently.
If a computer program malfunctions then everything it has control over can go out of synch and I suspect this might be what happened.
A restart fixed the issue, and that is typical of a computer glitch when things go out of synch, a restart refreshes everything and brings everything back into synchronisation."
This is packed with information relating to the problem and you call it verbiage and a metric ton of words.
May I suggest that you reconsider your comments I think you have missed most of what I was talking about.
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RE: Weirdest thing happened
I feel that there is a difference of understanding here, I am saying things that you dont understand, that does not mean that you have less understanding than I do, it just means we have a difference of understanding.
Maybe I am just not using the right words.
More than likely that is my fault.
As for your saying you are not objecting to any particular content in my posts, isnt that exactly what you are doing, objecting to my posts.