Brass instruments are not pneumatic circuits
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I put this one up to help clear confusion.
http://www.jaegerbrass.com/Blo/Entries/2019/12/brass-instruments-are-not-pneumatic-circuits.html
Ivan Hunter
Player, Designer, Builder, Writer, Teacher, Repairer
Jaeger Trumpets
Convener of Trumpet4Fun Trumpet Saturdays -
Doesn't confuse me. I never pay attention to that stuff, LOL.
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Jason Harrelson additionally brigs out the points posted by Trumpetsplus and uses the sound wave transmission as a key component to his design ideas.
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We have D, half round, round, ovate and pretty much whatever shaped tuning slides, each promising (and delivering) something different.
Do fluid dynamics play any role?
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@Trumpetsplus said in Brass instruments are not pneumatic circuits:
http://www.jaegerbrass.com/Blo/Entries/2019/12/brass-instruments-are-not-pneumatic-circuits.html
An instrument will present an increased resistance when the tubing does not want to resonate. This can happen when a high pressure in the wave (pressure antinode) occurs in a part of the tubing that does not want this to happen. There may be a change of hardness in the metal, a compromised solder joint, a leak, or just a bad design. A commonly found cause of high resistance in new, inexpensive beginner trumpets is excessive clearance in the valve casing, causing leaky valves.
Yes but how can you explain the differences between -for example- a Vincent Bach 180-37 with a 25 lead pipe and a 43 lead pipe? The latter had less resistance in the blow, so the first (the 25 leadpipe) has an increased resistance compare to the 180-37 with a 43 lead pipe
I presume that both trumpets are well designed and equipped with well made valves -
@Dirk020 If one model actually had more resistance it just means that it was harder to get it into resonance. I am not trying to explain design principles. I am only hoping to point out information.
Ivan Hunter
Player, Designer, Builder, Writer, Teacher, Repairer
Jaeger Trumpets
Convener of Trumpet4Fun Trumpet Saturdays -
@Vulgano-Brother You are jumping the gun somewhat. Shapes of curves will be addressed in a future Waiata.
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@Trumpetsplus said in Brass instruments are not pneumatic circuits:
@Dirk020 If one model actually had more resistance it just means that it was harder to get it into resonance. I am not trying to explain design principles. I am only hoping to point out information.
Or we simply have a harder time hearing ourselves and interpret that as a harder blow. Take that wonderful trumpet outdoors to an area with no buildings and playtest. It will normally be a lot more difficult even although the instrument and mouthpiece are exactly the same.
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A trumpet needs some resistance. One with zero resistance would be like that playground trick when someone leans on you but you pull away.
Ivan Hunter
Player, Designer, Builder, Writer, Teacher, Repairer
Jaeger Trumpets
Convener of Trumpet4Fun Trumpet Saturdays -
@Trumpetsplus said in Brass instruments are not pneumatic circuits:
A trumpet needs some resistance. One with zero resistance would be like that playground trick when someone leans on you but you pull away.
I mentioned that I could not play well on de Getzen 900 Severinsen; for me too few resistance instead of my Getzen 700s -a horn with a LOT of resistance- is my daily player, so yes, a trumpet needs (some) resistance. I know.
Your remark about a horn getting harder into resonance thus a FEEL of more resistance makes sense. Very interesting
After all, if you compare the bore of a mouthpiece with the inner diameter of the tubing in a trumpet, well that makes me think about why bore size of the instrument says very very littleGetzen, Conn, Melody Maker and -too- many Warburton pieces
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@Dirk020 said in Brass instruments are not pneumatic circuits:
After all, if you compare the bore of a mouthpiece with the inner diameter of the tubing in a trumpet, well that makes me think about why bore size of the instrument says very very little
A very profound correlation and I agree entirely!
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@Vulgano-Brother said in Brass instruments are not pneumatic circuits:
We have D, half round, round, ovate and pretty much whatever shaped tuning slides, each promising (and delivering) something different.
Do fluid dynamics play any role?
Depends on how much one drools!
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@Tobylou8 said in Brass instruments are not pneumatic circuits:
Do fluid dynamics play any role?
Depends on how much one drools!
See my remarks on cup size. If I recall correctly, I did drool initially, but applying more suction helped eliminate much of the drool that leaked from the cheek, so to speak.
