Best posts made by scottfsmith

My "dark horse" is a brand, Courtois. They went out of the trumpet business in 2015 or so and they are not very popular now.. because of that the prices are ridiculously low. The horns are just as awesome, top trumpeter Sergei Nakariakov is still playing on them last I heard.. no endorsement benefits possible there, the company isn't even making trumpets anymore.

I have an Evolution IV (heavy, braced) I got for $850 and also a couple Privilege horns (lightweight, step-bore) - I think I paid $650 for one and $850 for the other. If you can't find one I will sell my Privilege in silver which was a demo horn, it is nearly new. I shouldn't have bought it since I already had one but it was so cheap I could not resist. On top of these there is the Delmotte model ("Grand Siecle") which is a Bb/C conversion. I also bought one of them, too cheap to resist again and a superb player either in Bb or C. These three Courtois types are very different trumpets in terms of how they play, but they are all extraordinary designs.

Right, that is why I suggested it could be an earlier cornet of his.

Looking at it more, it doesn't look like a French instrument. Those style of keys are very much the German style with the shape of the key and the large "puck" the key is attached to. Besson did make some rotary valve cornets (e.g. Robb has one on his website) but the keys don't look like that. The thin bracing also does not look like any Besson bracing I have seen. Also that style of engraving looks later to me, the French engraving of that period is pure lines; that style of engraving is what was popular post-1900. And I agree the engraving looks too sloppy for a Besson. The water key has a coil spring on it which is also post-1900.

There could be explanations for this, e.g. Besson was copying the recent German designs and had not yet added their own touches to it. But, I would say some healthy skepticism is in order until there are more details

PS Here is a German cornet from around 1900, it looks a lot more like this than like any French instrument (notice the bracing for example). Also this style was patented in 1900 and popular then .. more strikes.

https://www.facebook.com/112608206776597/posts/the-cross-cornet-kreuzkornett-was-quite-famous-at-the-end-of-the-19th-century-sc/250915856279164/

I taught myself trumpet, I started maybe four years ago after teaching myself trombone a few years before that so I could play along with my son. After a couple years I stopped getting better, I couldn’t play much above the staff, so I started taking lessons. I would still be a pretty mediocre player if I didn’t make that step.

I was also doing odd things like naming the notes in concert pitch, so for example what all Bb trumpeters call G I would call F. It took me a long time to un-learn that bad habit..

Congrats on your new Courtois! 10XXX puts it around 1960. 164XX is around 1970. I don't have any Courtois in that period but the Leblanc horns were made by Courtois and share serials and I have a 707 in the 13XXX range which is a very nice horn. The best deals out there, too -- a Leblanc by Courtois went last week for about $250 on eBay.

Congrats! I know how good that feels because I recently did the same thing but in the opposite direction. I had an 1880's Courtois F trumpet mouthpiece but no trumpet.. but then a Courtois valved F trumpet from 1870 showed up on eBay and I now have the two together. This particular trumpet really needs the old mouthpiece, it can't be played in tune with a modern mouthpiece.

One small addition to the Besson timeline, The Besson "Breveté" (patent) for the modern trumpet is from 1867. Here is an illustration from that patent .. it looks like a modern trumpet, eh? The top one is in A I think and the middle one is in C.

I am sure there were some examples made in this period but they don't appear to have survived or are still in an attic somewhere.

I have .. lets see .. 7 Courtois trumpets and none of them have any red rot. Most of mine are very old ones, it could be in some more recent periods they were more prone to red rot.