Do you see what I see??
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I guess my point is missed. There is a time and a place for their use in a performance situation. An expansion in that vein is what I was hoping for.
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Knew a trumpeter that could peg any note on the tuner up to double c any time.
Problem is, if you are playing a chord tone, the Major 3rd will need to come down about 14 cents, the fifth about 2 cents up. If everyone does their part and play the exact degree of "out-of-tuneness" needed, the chord will ring. If everyone pegged the tuner, the chord will not ring.
I worked more than the above-mentioned trumpeter did.
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@Vulgano-Brother said in Do you see what I see??:
Knew a trumpeter that could peg any note on the tuner up to double c any time.
Problem is, if you are playing a chord tone, the Major 3rd will need to come down about 14 cents, the fifth about 2 cents up. If everyone does their part and play the exact degree of "out-of-tuneness" needed, the chord will ring. If everyone pegged the tuner, the chord will not ring.
I worked more than the above-mentioned trumpeter did.
Amen. Love the technical angle explained.
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A very good trombone playing friend told me once when we were working on a piece that I was about an eighth of a step flat.
I said, I'll take it, that’s about as close as I can be, then. -
@Vulgano-Brother said in Do you see what I see??:
Knew a trumpeter that could peg any note on the tuner up to double c any time.
Problem is, if you are playing a chord tone, the Major 3rd will need to come down about 14 cents, the fifth about 2 cents up. If everyone does their part and play the exact degree of "out-of-tuneness" needed, the chord will ring. If everyone pegged the tuner, the chord will not ring.
I worked more than the above-mentioned trumpeter did.
That brings up a question for me. Can folks learn to hear that or does it rely on some natural ability ingrained. I ask because I wonder about some players and their seeming lack of hearing when a note is just not right, and then further into it, what you were saying, Brother Vulgano, how on certain chords you have to "hear" the amount you need to push a note to make it ring. Can that be taught or learned?
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Intonation is learned, and the best way I've found is to play intervals with another trumpeter. One plays a "drone" and the other slides up or down until the resultant tones are in tune. You'll hear the resultant tones "buzzing" in your ear.
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@Vulgano-Brother said in Do you see what I see??:
Intonation is learned, and the best way I've found is to play intervals with another trumpeter. One plays a "drone" and the other slides up or down until the resultant tones are in tune. You'll hear the resultant tones "buzzing" in your ear.
That is very helpful and encouraging to know. Thanks.
I have had that happen many times, now that you mention it.GETZEN Eterna 900, S.E. Shires C Trumpet, Custom Shires 3c MP, Shires 1 1/2 C MP
Assorted other mp's not used
( not very unusual….right? ) -
@BigDub said in Do you see what I see??:
I have had that happen many times, now that you mention it.
Great! Get those resultant tones sounding in tune, and memorize the sound and its visceral aspects. For best results, use the first and third slides to do the tuning work.
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Generally, these types of tuners are used (for lack of a better term) for static instruments like guitar and piano. Once they are tuned, all a person need do is pluck a string or strike a key. It is not that simple for us and that's why our tuners are our ears. Why? Because we can alter the pitch with our lips.
Its hard for me to believe that either one of these guys need a tuner other than their ears. In addition, if they are in a studio, the engineer can clean up any intonation issues with the turning of a knob.
Dr.Mark -
@Vulgano-Brother said in Do you see what I see??:
@BigDub said in Do you see what I see??:
I have had that happen many times, now that you mention it.
Great! Get those resultant tones sounding in tune, and memorize the sound and its visceral aspects. For best results, use the first and third slides to do the tuning work.
My problem is more with some others rather than myself and whether there is any hope whatsoever for their improvement.
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Hi BigDub,
I like what you said!
This is IMO why recording ones self and critically listening to the recording is so important. Recording and listening is the great leveler. There have been times I would say to myself, "That was pretty good!" but when I'd listen to the recording, it would suck. It takes a lot of ego strength to record and listen because usually the recording will not be as good as you wanted or thought it to be. -
@Dr-Mark said in Do you see what I see??:
Hi BigDub,
I like what you said!
This is IMO why recording ones self and critically listening to the recording is so important. Recording and listening is the great leveler. There have been times I would say to myself, "That was pretty good!" but when I'd listen to the recording, it would suck. It takes a lot of ego strength to record and listen because usually the recording will not be as good as you wanted or thought it to be.Absolutely. Positively. 100%. Agree. My biggest improvements have come after listening to myself and being quite disappointed....but only because, like you, I thought hmm, that was pretty good. Then I knew what needed a lot of improvement!
People may think it ego driven, but my recordings are a real harsh dose of reality and good medicine for me! -
Recording shows what you truly sound like! Nothing is more eye-opening.
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Reel-to-reel tape works great when you can slow it to half speed. You get to hear all the crap. Useful too for transcribing solos. (Had fun in college transcribing a Chase solo, then playing it down an octave with a trumpet mouthpiece on a valve trombone--sped up, it sounded a lot like Chase.) Doesn't help when tuning intervals, though. Experiencing resultant tones doesn't work through a speaker.
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@Vulgano-Brother said in Do you see what I see??:
Reel-to-reel tape works great when you can slow it to half speed. You get to hear all the crap. Useful too for transcribing solos. (Had fun in college transcribing a Chase solo, then playing it down an octave with a trumpet mouthpiece on a valve trombone--sped up, it sounded a lot like Chase.) Doesn't help when tuning intervals, though. Experiencing resultant tones doesn't work through a speaker.
Let's not extol the virtues of playing at half-speed and down an octave lower too much. I was raised under that system. That's how I learned tunes/transcribed solos. Sucked compared to what you can do today. Ever try to transcribe a bass line an octave a complete octave LOWER?
Benge 3X
Martin Committee
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flugelhorn"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
Charlie Parker"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker -
@Kehaulani said in Do you see what I see??:
...Ever try to transcribe a bass line an octave a complete octave LOWER?I would NEVER stoop that low!
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That's not what she said!
Benge 3X
Martin Committee
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flugelhorn"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
Charlie Parker"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker -
@Kehaulani said in Do you see what I see??:
That's not what she said!
Or as the French would say: Touchy [or is that Touché?] Ahh what the hell, your choice!
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I enjoyed watching that video but the thing that surprised me was that those little clip-on tuners fit on THAT part of the bell! Had a little session last night and gave it a try and It fit just fine and worked great... so thanks!!
