Amati-Kraslice - the ones we love to hate?
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@conndirectorfan Lucked out and found a rarity with its original inspection/warranty slip! This is model AFH-201, the standard flugelhorn, which appears to be from March 1998 [1.3.98 - note 15 Oct 99 above], serial 865738. Note the older style milled caps and buttons and plastic case with older-style latches and "smoother" exterior than the later molded cases.
For reference, 862346 is an ATR-303 Festival type dated Jan 1994 - hard to say how the serials all line up, but this puts the reset around the 1990s...so far... -
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I just joined so am still trying to figure out the "rhythm" of this site.
I have one - it has "ATR213 Czech Republic" on the receiver, a stylized "ak" logo on the bell and s/n 227190 vertical on the bottom of the 2nd valve casing.
It appears to have had little use. The lacquer is perfect and no dents, dings or scratches. The valves seal well and have quick response. It appears well-built and is actually a good player. Would this be considered a student model or something above that? -
I am a Czech, so although I am not a music professional, I can try to be helpful, so feel free to ask.
BR,
zetka. -
Interesting. As I've been learning Czech lately, I now recognize that this is a Czech instrument, and I also know how to pronounce the name correctly!
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I have experience of three Amati Kraslice instruments. A pocket trumpet (pretty sad but OK for the money), a stencil double french horn (pretty OK for a student model) and a forward-facing tenor horn (bassflugelhorn/basstrompete).
The tenor horn, pictured, was really quite good. I played it in small ensemble (and even in symphony once) for about five years before selling it on. I inquired about its age and got a response by email that it was “35-40 years old” (in 2016).
The sad part is, it has no serial!
Cerveny are currently producing a very similar tenor horn under its own mark (I believe it is CTR 592-3), which I have played side by side with this one. The new one is of course more airtight, more efficient, and slots more tightly, but the old one holds its own.
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@Jolter The problem what I know is, that AMATI quite often made in 80s and 90s OEM instruments under different brands as well (Lignatone, Corton, York, Supertone, some instruments for B/H Besson etc), although they were mostly students instruments. I think that even Cerveny horns were marked and sold in those times under the Amati brand, although the Cerveny factory was focused mostly on cylinder instruments and they were made not in the main factory in Kraslice but in Hradec Králové. So the design of the instrument is primary, no matter of branding.
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@zetka Well I'm very glad to have a Czech speaker to help demystify some of this! In the last few years [really in the last 8 months] we were able to get a large collection of Amati catalogs ranging from the 1960s to 1980s, and while they probably aren't a complete set, they definitely shed light on what was insanely confusing for so long. I'll add the links momentarily
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And here's another one - ca. 1991 production ACR-241 pocket cornet with tuning shanks, though the serial itself makes me wonder if the parts were originally manufactured much earlier...
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@ConnDirectorFan Most of the items here are on Horn-u-Copia in the Library, so I linked their OneDrive PDFs here for the smallest file size [and the original Google Drive scans where applicable] - hover over the text to see the link:
https://horn-u-copia.net/library.shtml
Amati-Kraslice piston, ca. 1970s-1980s [scans]
Amati-Kraslice rotary, ca. 1970s-1980s [scans]
Amati-Kraslice, 1976 per censorial mark [scans]
Amati-Kraslice, ca. 1976 [scans]
Amati-Kraslice, ca. 1968-1970 [scans]
Amati-Kraslice, ca. 1967 [scans]
Artia/Amati-Kraslice piston trumpets, ca. 1967 [scans]
Lignatone/Amati-Kraslice, ca. 1964 [scans]
Lignatone 351/Amati-Kraslice, ca. 1953
Lignatone 352/Amati-Kraslice, ca. 1954 [scans] - has a censorial mark indicating 1954
Ligna Spanish export [Lignatone]/Amati-Kraslice, ca. 1949 [scans] courtesy Gerard Westerhofand a 1975 EMI/Rosetti catalog showing Corton brasswinds and more
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and some newer catalog/part items as well:
Repair parts: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eufgahpSJ5qrHajU5hhgybjsw1v8Z0Ku?usp=drive_link2021: https://amati.cz/images/catalogue-download/amati-catalogue.pdf and https://www.vfcerveny.cz/images/catalogue-download/vfcerveny-cataloque.pdf
@ConnDirectorFan said in Amati-Kraslice - the ones we love to hate?:
@ConnDirectorFan Most of the items here are on Horn-u-Copia in the Library, so I linked their OneDrive PDFs here for the smallest file size [and the original Google Drive scans where applicable]:
https://horn-u-copia.net/library.shtml
Amati-Kraslice piston, ca. 1970s-1980s [scans]
Amati-Kraslice rotary, ca. 1970s-1980s [scans]
Amati-Kraslice, ca. 1976 [scans]
Amati-Kraslice, ca. 1968-1970 [scans]
Amati-Kraslice, 1976 per censorial mark [scans]
Amati-Kraslice, ca. 1967 [scans]
Artia/Amati-Kraslice piston trumpets, ca. 1967 [scans]
Lignatone/Amati-Kraslice, ca. 1964 [scans]
Lignatone 351/Amati-Kraslice, ca. 1953
Lignatone 352/Amati-Kraslice, ca. 1954 [scans]
Ligna Spanish export [Lignatone]/Amati-Kraslice, ca. 1949 [scans] courtesy Gerard Westerhof -
So now it's possible to cross-reference models with the catalogs! There are plenty of oddballs that don't quite conform [mostly early models], but it's now easy to see that the infamous "Conn Director grip ring" basic stencil is the Lignatone 2400 or 2401, later Amati-Kraslice 2440.
Bell garlands vary from the smaller ones on early Consul 2360 and Lignatone/Amati 2404, the Supertone 2503/2543 with a large garland, the flat-rim 2444 often co-labeled Bohland & Fuchs, the roll-past rim Arioso Super B-2580 [like the Buffet/Evette horns made in Germany], etc.
Cornets can be linked to the long-model 1200/B-1037, mid-length 1210/1250, shorter 1900/1910/B-1040, "Wonderphone"/"Connquest" tuning-bell 2551/B-1038, and of course the pocket cornet 200P, later B-1041/ACR-241.
Flugelhorn is usually 226... -
@ConnDirectorFan All given links contains quite complete and really invaluable material, because even in Amati itself they do not collect those old paper history prospects from communist era, so unfortunately you can not dig any more information about certain model from the old production there. It is very evident, that the export of AMATI musical instruments was very important for the company and the state itself as a source of foreign currency, which was a great need.
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@zetka said in Amati-Kraslice - the ones we love to hate?:
@ConnDirectorFan All given links contains quite complete and really invaluable material, because even in Amati itself they do not collect those old paper history prospects from communist era, so unfortunately you can not dig any more information about certain model from the old production there. It is very evident, that the export of AMATI musical instruments was very important for the company and the state itself as a source of foreign currency, which was a great need.
That was the goal! I agree with everything you said; their current US distributor has found that Amati have a clean slate every decade or so, leading to discontinuity we see here. The hard-currency export mission outweighed the documentation, it seems, as only two brochures had censorial marks indicating the year...! Amati-Kraslice, 1976 per censorial mark [scans] was one I forgot to include, but it establishes a hard date for obscure variations.
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Another interesting piece - this "R1M" imitation of some Rudy Muck mouthpiece, which is visible in the 1963 Lignatone catalog
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@ConnDirectorFan Unique prospects! I am having some of the Amati trumpet older MPCs, by my amateur feeling they were made more by the older VB flatter rim (my subjective feel). I know some of the unusual ones such as the double cup H2W (something like Selmer Special), but I did not meet the RM1. As far as I have few RMs Made in the USA and Made in England and although they have the same description, they are quite different in size and look (17C,19C and some 18M). Do you have the MPC prospect complete to see it in full? I miss there the some of the standard ones, such as 1, 1C, 1 1/2C etc. I miss there the 7E, 7CW etc. I played them about 40 years ago in the 80s and I am returning to them to find, that they are really not bad sounding.